[The E]

To what ive read ES 2 is based on OGL 2, i know nothing about OGL 3 or 4, so i give you that.

Yeah, the whole situation is a bit confusing. OpenGL ES2 is a hybrid of OpenGL 2 capabilities combined with OpenGL 3 API design. This means that you get the increased flexibility from GL3 and the way it is structured, while at the same time the hardware only has to support the limited feature set of OpenGL2; this was done in order to keep hardware requirements (especially power requirements) as low as possible while at the same time giving programmers the flexibility to get the most out of the hardware available.

BTW, E you know lot more than me, you have any idea of what can expect from Windows 8 ARM? do you think they may implement Directx support using some kind of wrapper? and you know where i going with this, FSO can still use the old Directx api?

It would surprise me if Microsoft didn't do some form of DirectX support in the ARM editions of Win8, given MS' desire to unify their operating system structures across all platforms (Windows Mobile, XBox, Windows Desktop). I suspect that we're going to get a special edition of DirectX 9 on ARM devices, or something similar to the XBox APIs.

As far as DirectX support in FSO goes, that's a bit tricky. After 3.6.9, the DirectX code was purged from the codebase, so there's no way at the moment to do DirectX builds. The basic infrastructure that allows API switching is still there though; it should be possible (if seriously work-intensive) to create a new DirectX interface. Whether that's actually a good idea is something I am unsure about though, given that the reasons for purging DX back then are still valid today (lack of people able to maintain the platform, mostly).

[ShivanSpS]

So, theoretically, once a test version of Win8 ARM comes out, and if it has DX8 support and there is a way to compile for WinARM(or whatever they call it), we can try to compile one of the older 3.6.9 sources to give it a try.

BTW, it seems that Visual Studio 11 dev preview can compile for ARM.

[The E]

Well, yes, but being able to compile ARM binaries for an as-yet unreleased OS running on unreleased hardware is kind of a useless feature.

Also, I am pretty sure that when the SDKs and such come out, compiling our old DirectX code against it will be just as much trouble as trying to compile our current OpenGL code against OpenGL ES.

[jr2]

Err... there *is* a way to get ahold of

Code: [Select]

Windows 8 Developer Preview
If you know where to get it, that is the search term to use. 

[The E]

...

plz 2 read thread, kthxbai.

We were talking about the ARM version, you know, the one that isn't the Desktop version which you can download and test right now. You will excuse me if I do not take it for granted that any program written against the Windows 8 desktop specs will be able to run on all Windows 8 versions (especially those that do NOT use x86 hardware) without modifications.

[rhettro]

I'd love to see a PSP version of FSO.

[The E]

I'd love to see a PSP version of FSO.

Then get the homebrew SDKs (if there is such a thing), and get to coding.

[chief1983]

...

plz 2 read thread, kthxbai.

We were talking about the ARM version, you know, the one that isn't the Desktop version which you can download and test right now. You will excuse me if I do not take it for granted that any program written against the Windows 8 desktop specs will be able to run on all Windows 8 versions (especially those that do NOT use x86 hardware) without modifications.

You mean Windows 8 still won't have universal binaries? 

[The E]

No, I mean we do not know how the APIs are going to look.

[ShivanSpS]

it was already stated that Windows 8 on ARM cant run x86 binaries. The apps needs to be recompiled for ARM, that's why VC2011 has capability to compile for ARM. Not sure how it works anyway.
What remains to be seem is if W8 has OpenGL ES and/or Directx 8/9 and/or Directx 10/11 support.

BTW, this is related, but i just noticed this today. http://adrenalin.gamestring.com/ sounds like a lot of input lag to me.

[pecenipicek]

The apps needs to be recompiled for ARM, that's why VC2011 has capability to compile for ARM.

wasnt that capability around with the proper SDK's for the good old WinMo? i mean seriously, winmo devices almost universally run on ARM.



(from my limited research on the subject anyhow)

[wolfen]

I only read the first few posts on this one and all I can say is who would want to play FS on a phone? I have a Samsung Epic, it will play anything I want it to but my old two button computer mouse is smarter than my smart phone.

[Iss Mneur]

Well you should have read the rest of the thread then.

The idea seems to be more to go for the android tablets than the phones, not that it helps with the control concerns that were brought up.

[KyadCK]

Well you should have read the rest of the thread then.

The idea seems to be more to go for the android tablets than the phones, not that it helps with the control concerns that were brought up.

Android phones and tablets are 100% capable of useing full qwerty keyboards, mice, and ps3 controlers over bluetooth, and for tablets, over usb. Just saying.

Pretty sure the main issue was opengl compatability.

[Mikes]

Well you should have read the rest of the thread then.

The idea seems to be more to go for the android tablets than the phones, not that it helps with the control concerns that were brought up.

Android phones and tablets are 100% capable of useing full qwerty keyboards, mice, and ps3 controlers over bluetooth, and for tablets, over usb. Just saying.

Have you actually tried it? Because it sure does not look like they do it "properly"... "natively"... or "sensible"... or "usable" LOL.

Trying to use mouse buttons (i.e. more than 1 haha) and windows specific keys on your android tablet may be a revelation to you

You may (or may not - no clue) be able to get it all to work if you code yourself... but out of the box it's sure a mess.



Even just using a terminal app on android to try (remote) control your windows PC is a chore for this very reason. You always gotta work around the utterly deficient controls.
(I.e. you could even try to use something like Splashtop to "play" Freespace on your Android Tablet right now.... except you can't because the control issues would make you want to hang yourself. (... and input lag, but that is just an issue with Splashtop - not Android.) ......   You could possibly use Splashtop to make a silly "hey look Freespace is running on my Android Tablet Youtube video" tho that would make everyone hate you ...  mhhhhhhh..... lol)

[wolfen]

Well you should have read the rest of the thread then.

The idea seems to be more to go for the android tablets than the phones, not that it helps with the control concerns that were brought up.

Didn't have time, was downloading a mod before I started splitting more wood for the heater and it finished to I made a quickie and shut down. But its nice to know you guys are thinking about Tablets, cause here soon those things are gonna be as big as laptops, and both FS1 and FS 2 run perfectly on my wifes Laptp

[KyadCK]

Well you should have read the rest of the thread then.

The idea seems to be more to go for the android tablets than the phones, not that it helps with the control concerns that were brought up.

Android phones and tablets are 100% capable of useing full qwerty keyboards, mice, and ps3 controlers over bluetooth, and for tablets, over usb. Just saying.

Have you actually tried it? Because it sure does not look like they do it "properly"... "natively"... or "sensible"... or "usable" LOL.

Trying to use mouse buttons (i.e. more than 1 haha) and windows specific keys on your android tablet may be a revelation to you

You may (or may not - no clue) be able to get it all to work if you code yourself... but out of the box it's sure a mess.



Even just using a terminal app on android to try (remote) control your windows PC is a chore for this very reason. You always gotta work around the utterly deficient controls.
(I.e. you could even try to use something like Splashtop to "play" Freespace on your Android Tablet right now.... except you can't because the control issues would make you want to hang yourself. (... and input lag, but that is just an issue with Splashtop - not Android.) ......   You could possibly use Splashtop to make a silly "hey look Freespace is running on my Android Tablet Youtube video" tho that would make everyone hate you ...  mhhhhhhh..... lol)

1: Freespace doesn't use Windows keys, so that doesn't matter very much.

2: If you need an app to use the keyboard/mouse, you're doing it wrong.

3: If there is any lag over a qwerty keyboard pluged in over USB (tablets), you're really doing it wrong.

4: No, a ps3 controler over bluetooth has zero lag. I use it for all emulators all the time.

Even Hacker's Keyboard offers full qwerty functionality, including ctrl and alt. Some devices may need to be rooted to support proper bluetooth devices, but thats not the concern of the app makers, considering a keyboard really is needed.

Well you should have read the rest of the thread then.

The idea seems to be more to go for the android tablets than the phones, not that it helps with the control concerns that were brought up.

Didn't have time, was downloading a mod before I started splitting more wood for the heater and it finished to I made a quickie and shut down. But its nice to know you guys are thinking about Tablets, cause here soon those things are gonna be as big as laptops, and both FS1 and FS 2 run perfectly on my wifes Laptp

Read the title [FS2 SCP and Android... (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN)]. Last i paid any attention it was due to some mobile version of opengl not supporting everything FSO uses, which is a pretty big issue.

[Mikes]

KyadCK, you really do need to look up what Splashtop (or other "supposedly" gaming capable remote desktop programs) does to get a clue what I was actually referring to

[KyadCK]

KyadCK, you really do need to look up what Splashtop (or other "supposedly" gaming capable remote desktop programs) does to get a clue what I was actually referring to

The 'project' is literaly fso on android, not remote desktop to a pc playing it, so...

[chief1983]

As far as the aspect of limited input ability goes, we've had someone turn FSO into an RTS.  I'm sure with a little creative FREDing, scripting, and maybe a few code tweaks, that FSO could run something both playable and fun on a handheld device.  Assuming you could get past all the other hurdles of that device, which is already covered in this thread so I'm not commenting on that.