[Polpolion]

You could always, you know, not buy those games. If you aren't willing to go without the product even when you know what kind of crap it's coming with beforehand you shouldn't be complaining.

[Qent]

That's only true assuming perfect information. As it is, people who buy the games don't know that they could lose them without warning or refund.

On the other hand, I guess that does exclude anyone who's reading this thread, heh.

[TwentyPercentCooler]

This is why it's becoming less surprising every day that more people are buying single player games and then removing the DRM. Not that I would directly admit or advocate that kind of activity, of course.

I would. EA can suck my c****.

I haven't been around these forums for too long, so I'm not entirely comfortable with some of the unwritten policies. The only other forums community I've really been active in in the past has been the Escapist mag, and they're very touchy about the subject of piracy there. Even mentioning it offhand can get you banhammered.

But more on-topic: Both EA and Activision seem to have having a contest to see who can be a bigger dick to their customers. EA seemed to actually be coming around, until they came out with Origin. I think when Mass Effect 3 comes out, I'm just gonna send a $60 check to BioWare and pirate the game. Origins or whatever that godawful thing is will never taint my hard drive.

[Qent]

I haven't been around these forums for too long, so I'm not entirely comfortable with some of the unwritten policies. The only other forums community I've really been active in in the past has been the Escapist mag, and they're very touchy about the subject of piracy there. Even mentioning it offhand can get you banhammered.

You are correct in that suggesting piracy has incurred bans here before.

[Flipside]

My own interpretation of the rules regarding piracy is this:

The discussion of Piracy is not a crime, the facilitating of it is. Whilst we welcome discussion on most subjects, and are prepared to accept pro-piracy viewpoints as an opinion like any other, the linking, naming or other identification of piracy sites is not tolerated without a damn good reason (For example, mainstream stories involving the Website of the Pirate Party in Sweden, which I shall not name for fear of stabbing myself with irony). It is not the Moderators job to judge the posters viewpoints, merely their behaviour whilst expressing them.

[deathfun]

My own interpretation of the rules regarding piracy is this:

The discussion of Piracy is not a crime, the facilitating of it is. Whilst we welcome discussion on most subjects, and are prepared to accept pro-piracy viewpoints as an opinion like any other, the linking, naming or other identification of piracy sites is not tolerated without a damn good reason (For example, mainstream stories involving the Website of the Pirate Party in Sweden, which I shall not name for fear of stabbing myself with irony). It is not the Moderators job to judge the posters viewpoints, merely their behaviour whilst expressing them.

IT'S LIKE YOUR TOYING WITH OUR VERY LIVES MAAAN
WE ALL HANG IN THE BALANCE OF YOUR ALL POWERFULNESS
*subtlety posts pirated whatever link*
www.nopiratedthingsheresheeshsuchlowfaithinmeyouhaveD:.com

[Fineus]

LoL..GlobalMods...

(Sorry Flipside , and you're quite right in your interpretation - but that's not an open invite for folks to see how far they can push it, k? )

[Sandwich]

Pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates MUSHROOM MUSHROOM pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates MUSHROOMMUSHROOM...!

[Commander Zane]

YAR-HAR FITTLE DE DE! BEING A PIRATE IS ALL RIGHT TO BE.
DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE!
YOU. ARE. A PIRATE!

[Unknown Target]

I actually make a point to buy all my games, music, etc. I used to pirate stuff a lot, but then I made it a habit to purchase things. I actually like it a bit more, it's more of a feeling of accomplishment and enjoyment when playing the game when you know that you worked hard to get the money to pay for it. It also means that I only play games I'm really excited for and interested in, rather than discarding them like used tissue paper for the next fix.

[karajorma]

Don't forget that the same thing applies to consoles too. All consoles rely on the service provided by the respective owner companies. If they decide to pull the plug, most of your shiny hard-copy console games are nothing more than glorified frisbees.

AFAIK console games don't rely on an online component in order to play Singleplayer. DRM enabled PC games do.

More importantly though the big problem isn't Valve suddenly shutting off Steam if they get taken over. The big problem is that there is always the possibility that they could simply increase the pervasiveness of their DRM via a steady stream of more invasive DRM. My problem with Steam (and any system with couples DRM to the multiplayer system) is that if they decide to update their client to a more repressive one you have two choices, 1) install it and put up with all that **** or 2) Lose access to multiplayer for all your Steam games. The irony of course being that the more loyal a Steam customer you have been, the greater their ability to **** on you.
 Worse still, even if you do choose 2, you lose any ability to ever upgrade your PC as the newer client will be required in order to verify all your games on the new PC.

If you only play games once, fine. This doesn't affect you. But there are lot of people it does affect.

[ssmit132]

I actually make a point to buy all my games, music, etc. I used to pirate stuff a lot, but then I made it a habit to purchase things. I actually like it a bit more, it's more of a feeling of accomplishment and enjoyment when playing the game when you know that you worked hard to get the money to pay for it. It also means that I only play games I'm really excited for and interested in, rather than discarding them like used tissue paper for the next fix.

I'm sort of the same, I used to not care about having pirated copies of software (as in, giving to and taking copies of CDs from friends and family), but now I prefer to get a legitimate copy of games. Pirating stuff doesn't appeal to me now, and I'd also prefer to err on the safe side of caution. Granted I don't buy new games often now days.

It's also satisfying for me to get a real copy of an older game, especially if it's a physical one (though I might make an ISO image to preserve the original disk and use Daemon Tools).

[Fury]

The big problem is that there is always the possibility that they could simply increase the pervasiveness of their DRM via a steady stream of more invasive DRM.

DRM in many non-Steam games are already more pervasive than Steam. And some of those games may even use custom online authentication on launch and whatever and thus require internet access anyway and that would give them the option to update their DRM too. Then there are services like Live that pushes the updates down your throat what may also update DRM. So regardless of whether the game uses Steam or not, there is always the risk of DRM changing. Number of games that do not make use of services like Steam or Live are shrinking every year. Even on consoles.

It is a possibility that Steam could someday **** up their customers with some stupid DRM stunt or something. But please do remember what kind of DRM stunts other companies have pulled to date. I dare say Steam is the lesser evil here. I just don't see the point in such FUD when those hard copies you buy already have worse DRM than Steam RIGHT NOW. Isn't the situation you have now far more important than situation that could be but not necessarily will be a year from now?

[Klaustrophobia]

the worst DRM i've seen on a hard copy that didn't force steam, windows live or some other "service" on me is a simple CD key and a disk check.  enter cd key once, get a crack from <redacted> to disable the disk check, which is completely legal if you own the game.  steam and similar services nag me with a bunch of **** i don't want.  i have to register accounts i don't want that give me DUMB features i don't need, trying to sell me a "better" account i REALLY don't need, all to install and play a game that i have a gd disk for.  the first time i installed a game that required steam (a fact that was not advertised and i was unaware of), it even went so far as to ignore the disk that was in the fking drive and DOWNLOAD the game to install it.  steam is fine as a pure distribution system.  i've purchased 5 or so really cheap games from the sales.  but it doesn't need to be all up in my store-bought physical copies. 

[TrashMan]

There must be some kind of contest going on between certain game companies, wherein a huge cash prize is given to the most evil company by a particular date.

[BritishShivans]

I find that EA is an insult to business and via extension capitalism in general. (albiet monitored capitalism, so that crazy, greedy megacapitalists like those people in good ol' MERICA can monopolise stuff and ruin people's lives)

So yeah. This is isn't a surprise.   

[Grizzly]

I disagree. I think that EA tries to provide their costumers with a good experience, but is so heavy handed in their approach that innocents are getting hit, and because they are just so homongenous, they fail to see the problem. This is causing them a lot of bad press, which is awfull for a gaming company.

[The E]

I find that EA is an insult to business and via extension capitalism in general.

I think EA is a wonderful example of business and capitalism in general. Maybe you don't understand what capitalism actually means?

I disagree. I think that EA tries to provide their costumers with a good experience, but is so heavy handed in their approach that innocents are getting hit, and because they are just so homongenous, they fail to see the problem. This is causing them a lot of bad press, which is awfull for a gaming company.

Uhhh, No. EA's desire to provide a good experience for their customers is second to their desire to make some money. Please remember that EA has stopped being a games company a long time ago, and has since mutated into a media company that is run with the same sense of entitlement that the RIAA and MPAA stand for. The executives that make the rules we are complaining about are as far removed from common gamers as the Earth is from the Moon.
This is in marked contrast to companies like Valve or CD Projekt.

[NGTM-1R]

I often see this defence of Steam but I never seem to see anyone considering what happens if another company, let's say EA, bought Valve.

Your scenario is roughly as sane and logical as if my net worth were suddenly to be measured by the number of lolcat pictures stored on my hard drive.

You posit a very-low-order-of-probability hypothetical in the face of a certainty; Steam is the least-intrusive and least-troublesome form of DRM currently being pushed by anyone of consequence, with the added bonus that it also allows the cheap purchase of games and removes the necessity of physical media. Why should we even treat your commentary as serious?

[Klaustrophobia]

how is requiring a third party application to be installed to run a game you bought a physical copy of less invasive than just entering a flippin CD key?  whether you like all the extra crap that comes with steam or not, there's no denying it's intrusive.