Author Topic: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!  (Read 8796 times)

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Offline FireSpawn

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
"HLP UNDERGROUND" sounds even more like a porn site than usual........I LIKE IT!
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Offline Mikes

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
"HLP UNDERGROUND" sounds even more like a porn site than usual........I LIKE IT!

Oh noes... my girlfriend already asked once what kind of site "HARD light productions" is lol.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
Fair use goes out the window, alone with derivative work.  Since ISP's have immunity, if they got an order from a company (not the government) to stop HLP they'll enforce it no matter what.

Fair use doctrine and derivative work precedents do not go out the window.  They are utterly unaffected by SOPA, and to believe otherwise shows a lack of understanding about what those terms mean.  SOPA does not alter the nature of copyrights, trademarks, or patents but rather expands on the methods of enforcement.


Quite. However, there are already problems with fair use and derivative works considering, say, YouTube videos, and that's just under DMCA which enables the copyright holders to start legal proceedings against the hosting company (not ISP) if they don't react to the complaint by removing it or limiting its availability. Note that this is still in the regime of civil courts.

SOPA would move all this to the criminal courts and that step alone is quite a big thing.

Considering that the definition of fair use/derivative work are not exactly the clearest to majority of people, you can bet your ass there will be numerous, numerous claims of copyright violation in cases that would, in fact, qualify as either fair use (parody etc.) or derivative works, but that won't matter because the ISP's will gain immunity if they react to complaints, whereas they will be held liable if they don't react to complaints.

Much like YouTube, they won't have interest or resources to investigate whether or not the copyright complaints actually have a legitimate reason, they can just pull the plug to avoid lawsuits against them. Clients will actively have to disprove copyright complaints, assuming their ISP even offers such an option.

Moreover, when someone puts media containing copyrighted works (under fair use/derivative work definitions) for hosting, and then their ISP pulls the plug on it announcing that a copyright complaint has been filed on the content - who's going to have the legal knowledge and resources to

a. be certain that the media actually qualifies as fair use of copyrighted work, or derivative work, and
b. have the cojones to clarify the situation with the ISP

Not to mention that you would have to prove this to the ISP, which means the ISP needs to have a legal department prepared and able to handle copyright definitions to confirm that the work indeed does not violate copyrights, contrary to the complaint made by whoever.

The ISP's are not going to put massive funds into such activity. Why should they? They would risk getting sued by those who complained of the media in the first place. Going to courthouse to decide whether a piece of media hosted by the ISP violates copyright or not will be a massive resource drain for the ISP and their client, and since the actual definitions of fair use/derivative work tend to be a bit muddy, it's not a given that the judicial system will even make the correct call on it.

No, the end result is that anyone can make a copyright claim on anything and the ISP's will either take it down or face huge and economically inconceiveable risks from opposing the copyright claim on behalf of their client.


At least, that is my interpretation of what will likely happen. Even though technically the bill doesn't change any definitions of the copyright law itself (which, by the way, would be in far greater need of adjustment than reactive measures in enforcing the copyright law), the effective outcome will significantly change how different aspects of copyright law are handled and by whom.

This will, in my analysis, include significant changes to the viability of fair use of copyrighted materials, as well as derivative works.

Discuss.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 09:17:08 am by Herra Tohtori »
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Offline FireSpawn

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
Someone just needs to remind the fatcats about the free porn websites, then tell them that if the bill goes through they will not only have to work when they'd usually be looking at breasts, but their teen sons would go out to find some, and probably knock up some girl and cause a scandal that will cost them the next election.
If you hit it and it bleeds, you can kill it. If you hit it and it doesn't bleed...You are obviously not hitting hard enough.

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Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

 

Offline achtung

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
Google, Facebook, Ebay, twitter, etc. are considering the "nuclear option."

 http://m.cnet.com/Article.rbml?nid=57349540&cid=null&bcid=&bid=-281
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Offline Nuke

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
yea this bull**** isn't going to sit well with other internet companies out there. when most of the internet stops working im sure that will hammer the message into politicians that annexing freedoms is a good way to start a revolution.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
This will, in my analysis, include significant changes to the viability of fair use of copyrighted materials, as well as derivative works.

Discuss.

I will certainly give you credit for better articulating your point and additional credit for saying "significantly change" instead of "OMG ENDXOR!" with regard to fair use and derivative work precedents.  ;)

I still think you're taking an unrealistically pessimistic view on how this affects intellectual property law, though.  Monetarily, there's more to be gained in a criminal suit versus a civil suit.  Yes, there's jail time and fines to be paid, which makes the threat more intimidating, but the settlements won't be any more lucrative, and the legal fees are going to be greater.  That in mind, I think the DMCA is still what you're going to see being used against people putting concert tracks on YouTube or leaching a game off of a Torrent.  SOPA will likely be reserved for taking down large-scale sites devoted primarily to piracy.  In fact, given the language regarding websites hosted in foreign countries, I wouldn't be surprised if this bill was drafted to specifically target The Pirate Bay (again) and its imitators.  The potential for broader impact exists, of course, but I think that the DMCA is still going to be the weapon-of-choice for most copyright infringement cases.

I will certainly agree with you that the privatization of enforcement is a huge problem.  I also think that that's a huge part of the problem with people opposing this on the grounds that it supposedly harms the right to use intellectual property:  It takes the focus well away from the implications that SOPA has for due process.  If SOPA demanded that law enforcement agencies treat copyright/trade mark/patent infringement the same way as other crimes, then, after the accusation is made, they'd have to investigate, acquire proper warrants, and then they'd be able to detain you, demand the shutdown your website, and put you through the court system.  Under SOPA, as-written, law enforcement agencies are hardly involved in the process, so the accusation is enough.  The enforcement of copyright law isn't what's scary about SOPA; the lack of due process is.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
*snip*

So, basically what I said on page 1 :D

albeit perhaps more thorough

 
Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
Under SOPA, as-written, law enforcement agencies are hardly involved in the process, so the accusation is enough.  The enforcement of copyright law isn't what's scary about SOPA; the lack of due process is.

With this, I can just imagine them taking down smaller competition or open-sourced projects like adobe with gimp.
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Offline pecenipicek

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
Google, Facebook, Ebay, twitter, etc. are considering the "nuclear option."

 http://m.cnet.com/Article.rbml?nid=57349540&cid=null&bcid=&bid=-281
You could've given a non-mobile link, you know? :p



if anyone tries to go through with this, i expect it to backfire extremely spectacularily.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 05:45:31 am by pecenipicek »
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
surprised that no one has posted this, but a bit of legislation much more deserving of a code red was apparantly signed on new year's eve.  the one that lets anyone be held indefinitely by accusing them of being a terrorist.
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Offline redsniper

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
surprised that no one has posted this, but a bit of legislation much more deserving of a code red was apparantly signed on new year's eve.  the one that lets anyone be held indefinitely by accusing them of being a terrorist.

Yeah, NDAA. That frakker can go die in a fire.

Now IIRC, you're fairly conservative-minded, and I'm fairly liberal-minded, and if we both agree that it's a dangerous, horribad, bull**** piece of legislation and it still got passed, then... WHO THE **** IS DRIVING THE COUNTRY??? :banghead:



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Offline Sushi

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
surprised that no one has posted this, but a bit of legislation much more deserving of a code red was apparantly signed on new year's eve.  the one that lets anyone be held indefinitely by accusing them of being a terrorist.

Yeah, it's pretty bad, although frankly people are getting up in arms about this far too late. All NDAA does is more formally codify what the government has already been doing and already considers acceptable.

In other words, this battle was lost a while ago. Not enough people noticed.

  

Offline FireSpawn

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
Soon the situation wil be ++UnGood
If you hit it and it bleeds, you can kill it. If you hit it and it doesn't bleed...You are obviously not hitting hard enough.

Greatest Pirate in all the Beach System.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
WHO THE **** IS DRIVING THE COUNTRY??? :banghead:

People who've realized their actions don't necessarily matter.

Because the laws of Congress are subject to judicial review and Congress is populated by people who paid just enough attention in their law classes to know this many of them have come to the conclusion that they can pass whatever ridiculous bull**** they want and it's safe because the Supreme Court or one of the District Courts will reverse it.

They've passed the thinking on to the judiciary. Which is, admittedly, often better-equipped to think then they are, but on the other hand **** you you lazy ****ing assholes it takes time to overturn your bull****.
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Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
They've passed the thinking on to the judiciary. Which is, admittedly, often better-equipped to think then they are, but on the other hand **** you you lazy ****ing assholes it takes time to overturn your bull****.

 :lol: So true...
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Offline terran_emperor

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Re: CODE RED! WE HAVE A CODE RED!
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