[StarLiner]

You want to know why?

It was so amazing I feel like other campaigns are going to be underwhelming to me. AoA and WiH spoiled me pretty bad with awesome. I was thinking of trying my hand at creating a campaign, but now I feel as if anything I make would be inadequate.

 

[achtung]

Yeah I would say it's spoiled me as well. Can't lie.

[yuezhi]

same here. now i'm stuck with a horrible idea IMO that probably won't meet fred.

[Qent]

Yep. On the bright side, look how much effort it saved us!

[BrotherBryon]

I guess I would get eaten alive on this board if I mention the fact that I've never played BP.

[shiv]

Brother, don't do that! In other case you will find out all your Inferno work is pointless

[NGTM-1R]

same here. now i'm stuck with a horrible idea IMO that probably won't meet fred.

Amusingly enough it was AoA that finally stopped me FREDding.

[Hellstryker]

I can feed you guys storylines if you want to scratch your FRED itch. Amusingly enough I cannot FRED myself, rofl.

[Qent]

I guess I would get eaten alive on this board if I mention the fact that I've never played BP.

Death to the heathen!

[LordPomposity]

I guess I would get eaten alive on this board if I mention the fact that I've never played BP.

Good, then  you can still enjoy all of our campaigns.

[JGZinv]

I haven't played FSO or any of the mods outside of the BtRL demo and 2 partial FS2 missions...

So I've got y'all beat soundly.... and I'm a mod leader.

[Nyctaeus]

To be honest, I've never been amazed by BP. For me, it's so candyish. BP is trying to be spectacular and epic by the brute force. Bunch of emotions and "magic" things in, effectively covering lack of rationality and deep things, and It's too big departure from everything what we know from FS1 and FS2 - just cold war. It's like a Avatar in the sea of films. You're free to hate me for that, but I for me other things are more important than glowy visuals and "epicness". Anyway, playing both parts of BP was a great fun for me. I love technical side of both WiH and AoA, I love lots of innovation, superb ideas, elaborating of whole mod, large amount of work that autors did for BP universe and everything. Excellent mission design, cool dialogues... BP is just unforgivable and it will always be. If any released mod is perfect, BP is the closest mod to pretenfing for this title. BP Team - this guys just pulled out modding scene from routine!

[bigchunk1]

We guna say things we dislike about bp? That's kinda hard. Well to play along with the theme, I would like to try:

I did think that BP1 and BP2, given the overall quality that they were, could have experimented more with unique gameplay. Many of the star missions were general escort missions and the plot was moved along mostly by killing bombers and turrets. There were some pretty interesting tactics adopted in WIH such as the flight support packages in Aristia and capship command. Overall it was enjoyable, but I think a lot of that enjoyment came from the immersion the game instilled in you as you progressed. Sort of like interactive entertainment you worked your way through. Then again there was the Fury AI and the introduction of the UEF with all its different combat tactics.... well if BP were to go further, I believe gameplay is where improvements can be made. To be fair, that seemed to be exactly what the BP team was planning with WIH2, something I am still looking forward to if it comes out. There seemed to be lots of unique ways to play such as stealth missions where you lase targets for artillery, surface strafing on mars etc. That's about all I can say. I would be hard pressed to come up with much more criticism than that.

One last thing. As good as the blue planet series is, there should be no campaign so good that it makes you want to quit modding. If anything, the blue planet series inspired me to continue modding since it was an example of what could be done with FSO. Putting anyone's work on a pedestal as 'godly' or unsurpassable is really limiting to yourself and others.

[NGTM-1R]

One last thing. As good as the blue planet series is, there should be no campaign so good that it makes you want to quit modding. If anything, the blue planet series inspired me to continue modding since it was an example of what could be done with FSO. Putting anyone's work on a pedestal as 'godly' or unsurpassable is really limiting to yourself and others.

A noble but useless sentiment.

I stopped not because of BP, but due to a general feeling that had been building up. Ransom's work contributed as well. It has nothing to do with them being unsurpassable and everything to do with the fact I, specifically, have neither the time nor the energy to spend surpassing them.

[Qent]

We guna say things we dislike about bp? That's kinda hard. Well to play along with the theme, I would like to try:

Huh? I thought this thread was about how BP was too good.

One last thing. As good as the blue planet series is, there should be no campaign so good that it makes you want to quit modding. If anything, the blue planet series inspired me to continue modding since it was an example of what could be done with FSO. Putting anyone's work on a pedestal as 'godly' or unsurpassable is really limiting to yourself and others.

It's neither. BP has its issues, but at the same time it's way up there in quality and gameplay experience. It doesn't make me want to quit modding (as if I did any ), but it does make me feel like the amount of work that I would have to do to make something that is not totally eclipsed by BP is enormous.

[Rampage]

Brother, don't do that! In other case you will find out all your Inferno work is pointless

The design philosophy adopted by Inferno is quite different from that of BP.  Our focus is on our assets and the ability to use all such assets in a creative way to tell a story that does not deviate from the method used by Volition to tell the stories of FS1&2.  We do not plan to write any fiction or give our characters sophisticated backgrounds or use complex literary techniques to drive the story forward.  Instead, you will fly one of our intricately designed fighters or bombers and blow the crap out of anything in your path that prevents you from completing your objective.  That is what made vanilla FS fun and we guarantee that the Community will not be dissatisfied w/ the results.

I and many other members of Inferno Team greatly respect and admire the direction taken by the BP Team to take the FS experience to a next level.  It is something uniquely BP and it should stay that way.  And Inferno will stay our way.  And in that vein - - your respective campaigns and projects should stay their way and retain their flavor.

R

[Woolie Wool]

WiH keeps making me want to start BoE type missions and give up when I realize I'll never make them even halfway playable, never mind as good as Aristeia or Delenda Est. I'd kill to be able to make one awesome fleet action, especially in Twist of Fate to make up for the total joke that was FS1 capship combat.


To see Ticonderogas, Orions, Typhons, and Udjats all blasting each other with railguns while dozens of unshielded fighters and bombers swarm around...it would be beautiful.

[Drogoth]

I can feed you guys storylines if you want to scratch your FRED itch. Amusingly enough I cannot FRED myself, rofl.

Seconded

To be honest, I've never been amazed by BP. For me, it's so candyish. BP is trying to be spectacular and epic by the brute force. Bunch of emotions and "magic" things in, effectively covering lack of rationality and deep things, and It's too big departure from everything what we know from FS1 and FS2 - just cold war.

While I enjoyed BP, I had the same issues. The Mysticism around the Vishnans especially really put me off, which is probably why I prefer the WiH story to the AoA story by leaps and bounds.

I dunno, for me, personally, the fight against the Shivans was always a test of Terran/Vasudan ingenuity and courage. Everytime we survived it was because our strength of spirit and smart tactics, or 'tactical retreats' (I'm looking at you Capella). We even saw what happened when we didn't approach the Shivans with utmost care, (early FS2).

When AoA hinted that we COULDN'T win, not without passing some kind of spiritual test by the Vishnans, it devalued all the previous accomplishments, and made any ultimate victory less worth it, because it seemed like it wouldn't be our work - it would be the Vishnans.

That being said, this was my single and only problem with BP, and it didn't prevent me from enjoying the campaigns, it's simply a direction I wouldn't have taken. Reminds me rather forcibly of my perspective on the ending David Weber's "Out of the Dark" if anyone else here has read it. Great story... ended in a direction I disagreed with. Still enjoyed the story.

[MatthTheGeek]

AoA hinted that we COULDN'T win, not without passing some kind of spiritual test by the Vishnans

If that's what you think, then you have utterly failed to understand the real problematic behind the BP universe. There are many indications in AoA and WiH that we shouldn't consider the Vishnans as a helpful, benevolent force, and it is obvious that they are pursuing their own agenda, in which the true role of humanity has yet to be determined.

As for the "we can't win" part, or to be more precise, "we can't beat the Shivans from a military point of view", it's not a BP thing. Canonical FS2 pretty much states it clearly when they throw 80 jugs at you and blow a star for teh lulz.

One of the main reason BP has become so popular is actually because it's not a standard militaristic campaign à la FS1-2. We already have dozens of those.

[Drogoth]

AoA hinted that we COULDN'T win, not without passing some kind of spiritual test by the Vishnans

If that's what you think, then you have utterly failed to understand the real problematic behind the BP universe. There are many indications in AoA and WiH that we shouldn't consider the Vishnans as a helpful, benevolent force, and it is obvious that they are pursuing their own agenda, in which the true role of humanity has yet to be determined.

As for the "we can't win" part, or to be more precise, "we can't beat the Shivans from a military point of view", it's not a BP thing. Canonical FS2 pretty much states it clearly when they throw 80 jugs at you and blow a star for teh lulz.

One of the main reason BP has become so popular is actually because it's not a standard militaristic campaign à la FS1-2. We already have dozens of those.

I didn't say that the Vishnans were benevolent.

Your own words illustrate the problem I have entirely: 'the true role of humanity has yet to be determined'. I don't like that we are tools in someone elses agenda, or rather, that we don't have the option not to be, and I don't like that if we survive, it's essentially because of cosmic luck. The conversation between the Dante and the Vishnans Lulzwtfernought about the 'Brahmans of old' implied that any victory we might achieve was actually simply pre-ordained, which as I said, feels like it devalues the previous victories we have drawn.

On the topic of the 80 Sathani (correct pluralization?):

Canonical FS1 stated that the Lucifer was invincible, and then that same canon found a way to overcome. All hurdles are surmountable, sometimes it's just more difficult then others.  What if FS1 had ended with the destruction of Vasuda Prime, and we found a way to break the jump nodes to Shivan contested systems,  hiding in the heart of Terran space. Would you argue then that 'canon proves we can't beat the shivans because the Lucifer is invincible'? It's a fair argument, but my  response would still be the same: A way exists, we just haven't found it yet.

A representative from Volition said that they had planned a GTVA offensive into 'Shivantown' in FS3, but that it wasn't any more hammered out then that before FS3 got cancelled. Since he said quote: "go on the offensive" in reference the the GTVA, Volition clearly thought the GTVA could overcome 80 jugs, or at least had planned a way for the Security Council to believe it could.

So no, I fundamentally disagree with your statement that canon pretty much says the Shivans are unbeatable because they fielded a bunch of really nasty ships.

Finally, I know that's why BP is popular, I even said that I enjoyed it a lot. As I said in my post, it's simply a route I wouldn't have taken had I been on the story team. I didn't say it was wrong, or bad, I just gave my perspective had I been in their position.