Author Topic: Colossus what if?  (Read 40950 times)

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Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
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We're back to the "If the Colossus had X, then" square. The fact is, it doesn't. So, that's not getting us anywhere.

EDIT: Trashman, god ****ing damnit, learn to edit instead of doubleposting like a moron.

Speaking of which the beam jamming always seemed like a silyl concpet to me. How DO you jam a friggin energy beam?
The current technobabble is, disrupting the magnetic bottle that keeps the plasma on target.
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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

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Offline General Battuta

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The BP technofluff is configured to make beam jamming possible - beams in BP require a magnetic bottle all the way from emitter to target, and that bottle can be disrupted.

If you choose to treat beam technology differently for your campaign, then beam jamming doesn't make any sense.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Or rather doesn't have to make any sense. You can always come up with a different technofluff than BP that still enables for beam jamming if you wish.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Vip

  • 28
Or rather doesn't have to make any sense. You can always come up with a different technofluff than BP that still enables for beam jamming if you wish.

Different technofluff than BP? Preposterous! :P

Anyway, although Collie is very effective in its intended role - that of a destroyer killer, it would have no place in further warfare against the Shivans. The Second Incursion has taught the GTVA that whatever they can construct, the Shivans have something much bigger, nastier and more numerous just waiting beyond a node or two. That's why I like the BP approach, because it assumes that the GTVA aren't a bunch of fools.

However, against a non-Shivan foe, the Colossus could be actually quite useful, mostly in the psychological aspect. Just look at what would have happened in the BPverse should the Colossus survive. Not only is it a viable military asset that you can send in any time those pesky Solaris-class ships appear, but you can use it as a perfect bait. On any battlefield, it would become the prime target of any UEF attack - it may be outdated technologically, but all those beams and flak and fighters make it far too dangerous to be left alone, and the panicked captains would probably prioritise such a gigantic vessel, if only because it's huge. And while the bulk of UEF forces are occupied trying to deal with the Collie, which is sturdy enough to withstand their attacks for quite some time, you send in a Raynor or two to flank the forces and rip some frigates.

Of course this strategy would be only viable if the original Colossus had survived; I can find no reason for constructing another one.
Lieutenant Commander Richard "Viper" Pred

  

Offline crizza

  • 210
Played a campaign once, were a second Colossus was build, which was a crossbreed between what we have now, a logistic ship on its own, plus a mobile berth, able to build ships up to the Aeolus...so a mobile foundry...

 
Played a campaign once, were a second Colossus was build, which was a crossbreed between what we have now, a logistic ship on its own, plus a mobile berth, able to build ships up to the Aeolus...so a mobile foundry...


 

Offline crizza

  • 210
Played Homeworld too, when it was first released ;)
And the Mothership...has no punch, just building ships, but cannonfodder...

 
Yeah, true.  It's probably more like the Somtaw* exploration ship in Cataclysm. 

*however you spell that

 

Offline qwadtep

  • 28
In (1), GTVA wins thoroughly, but likely takes major casualties in the early stages of the war, mainly in its fighter corps. If the war lasts longer than a short period, then the GTVA will effectively adapt its fighter tactics and take greater advantage of their capital ship superiority. The UEF fighter forces are seriously lacking in terms of mobility--aside from the three Solaris destroyers, none of their ships can carry a decent fighter complement; most operate from local bases in Sol. Ferrying replacements back to the front lines is a risky, lengthy, and complicated process.
And the UEF has the logistical infrastructure to pull it off anyway. They've had it since before the Terran-Vasudan war. The Colossus, on the other hand, requires a small fleet just to keep it supplied and the GTVA has to route everything through a single node.

Quote
The UEF will not be able to come up with an effective means of countering beam weapons; it has no AWACS, nor science vessels advanced enough or specialized enough for the task, and converting the few ships up to the task will take significant time. After all, they have to invent the whole process, software, and hardware from scratch. The UEF doesn't have 18 months.
The UEF had Paveways, Archers, and torpedoes with twice the range of anything on the Colossus from the onset of the war. It would be disarmed before it even fired a shot.

Quote
And then the Colossus takes the field, and it's game over.
As already stated, for the Colossus, it is. Even if it survived to BP it would be a resource-hogging relic suited for defense at the Delta Serpentis side of the node at best.

 

Offline Polpolion

  • The sizzle, it thinks!
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Well, rather than just spout how killed the Colossus would be if it were magically teleported into War in Heaven, let's actually talk about what kind of refits the GTVA brass would give the Colossus if it had survived FS2. I forget where all the weapon mounts are, but my guess would be that the smaller ones could be moved around with relative ease. I'd probably remove all of the MX-52 launchers and install more flak, right off of the bat. Removing a couple TerSlashes could probably help alleviate some power problems; and it would definitely be worth it if it would help their heat management systems.

Another obvious thing is that it needs to be able to launch fighters and bombers faster, and to more places. Its weapons are already spread pretty thinly; fighters are just the thing you need for point defences. Maybe if you took out even more weapons and just caked on armour you could have a pretty neat strike platform: it would jump into the middle of the enemy battlegroup, poop out a few squadrons of fighters and bombers and just absorb damage while its bomber complement did all the work.

Not really sure how you could refit the colossus to make it more effective against multiple Sathanas juggernauts, though. You can't really rearrange the beams since you'd probably run into heat dissipation problems (or you might not, not really any canon info on how the heat sinks work). I suppose the best you could do is just bomber swarm it, you're probably screwed if there are multiple Sathanas juggernauts anyway. I suppose larger torpedoes could be installed in lieu of the MX-52s, but you'd probably run out of places to put ammunition too quickly.

Additional point of discussion: what kind of battlegroup should accompany the Colossus?

 

Offline headdie

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The issue with a colossus refit is the need to strip out and replace both the reactors and power grids with Meson based systems to power the blue beams hence why few FS2 era ships are armed with them.  you could probably get close to building a new one in the time it takes.

As for battlegroup, I have not a clue, probably 4-5 corvettes for strike actions and same again cruisers for point defense of the colly.
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Offline Polpolion

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Quote
The issue with a colossus refit is the need to strip out and replace both the reactors and power grids with Meson based systems to power the blue beams hence why few FS2 era ships are armed with them.  you could probably get close to building a new one in the time it takes.

This would not help. By the time the post-capella GTVA fleet is modernized (or built) to use Blue Beams the Shivans would have, I don't know, purple beams and we would be just as disadvantaged. And by the time we have purple beams the Shivans will have pink beams. (when we have pink beams they will have teal beams, yellow, silver, etc until out of colors)

I suppose the battlegroup should complement the role of the colossus itself. If you go the route of the Collie just jumping into the middle of the enemy fleet, cruisers probably aren't going to last very long in there. In that case you could probably get away with less escort cruisers and more of the direct fire kind. You'd have them jump in on the outskirts of the battle space trying to divide the enemy's attention while offering some fire support.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 02:24:48 pm by Polpolion »

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
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As for battlegroup, I have not a clue, probably 4-5 corvettes for strike actions and same again cruisers for point defense of the colly.

The Colossus is the strike action. Destroyer for additional fightercraft support, sufficient cruisers to screen the Colossus (probably more than you'd think since the Colossus has a lot of surface area to screen), some extras so you can separate the destroyer and defend both if necessary.
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Offline crizza

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The issue with a colossus refit is the need to strip out and replace both the reactors and power grids with Meson based systems to power the blue beams hence why few FS2 era ships are armed with them.  you could probably get close to building a new one in the time it takes.
This point I never understood...if the new beam cannons need meson powered reactors...didn't the Deimos has them or do I mix them up with vasudan reactors?

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Capella-era Vasudan reactors are still fusion reactor, just like the terran ones. They're just better at making em. Meson reactor, on the other end, are entirely post-Capella.

This is all, of course, BP lore only.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline headdie

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Quote
The issue with a colossus refit is the need to strip out and replace both the reactors and power grids with Meson based systems to power the blue beams hence why few FS2 era ships are armed with them.  you could probably get close to building a new one in the time it takes.

This would not help. By the time the post-capella GTVA fleet is modernized (or built) to use Blue Beams the Shivans would have, I don't know, purple beams and we would be just as disadvantaged. And by the time we have purple beams the Shivans will have pink beams. (when we have pink beams they will have teal beams, yellow, silver, etc until out of colors)

I am not so sure.  In AoA we have shivans, all be it from another dimension, which are still operating Capella era tech so that would be a grey area whether they would have more powerful technology on hand.
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Offline Polpolion

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blue planet is non-canon. looking at the differences between FS1 shivans and FS2 shivans I'd say the shivans are plenty capable of improving their technology. assuming they aren't will lead you down the path that led to the whole Colossus cluster **** in the first place.

[lul u c wut i did there?]

 

Offline General Battuta

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Not to mention the AoA Shivans never fought a second Incursion so it's surprising they're even packing that much heat

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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blue planet is non-canon. looking at the differences between FS1 shivans and FS2 shivans I'd say the shivans are plenty capable of improving their technology.

Which in turn makes several other assumptions about the Shivans as a society and the nature of the Shivan forces encountered...

We can go around in circles for hours with this, ultimately just about anything can be justified.
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Offline General Battuta

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And that's good, since it allows for more interpretations for more campaigns!