[BlueFlames]

I have two younger brothers in college several hours away, and they need that space to haul stuff back and forth.

Clearly, you are correct.  There is no solution to this problem besides owning an SUV.

How often are they moving back and forth anyway?  The only time at university that I ever had to carry more crap home than could fit in the boot of a compact sedan, was when I was moving in/out of the residence halls, and that was once per semester.  Again, you're basing the decision to buy a four-wheel-drive, three-ton, V8-powered brick on a trip that will be made three or four times a year.  What's it doing the rest of the time?  If you're like most Ford Explorer owners and leasees, it's transporting one person and little to no cargo over well-maintained roads, while drinking two to three times the fuel that a smaller, equally-capable vehicle would use.

Furthermore, I invite you to pay attention to what I wrote:

D)  Buy a more appropriate car for your needs.  (Emphasis added.)

If you live on top of a mountain and can only reach civilization via a single-track dirt road that turns to mud six months out of the year, then by all means, drive an SUV (or a half-track for that matter).  If you have nine children to ferry to daycare on a daily basis, first, figure out how condoms work, and then by all means, use that minivan.  If your job requires that you haul 1,200 pounds of lumber from site to site, drive that otherwise obnoxious F-450.  If 95% of your drive-time is spent going between your home and an office, with three or fewer passengers, and little to no cargo, why would you buy anything but a compact hatchback or sedan?  If your answer is anything but "marketing" or "a sales pitch," then you are a damn liar.  And if those are the conditions under which you drive, and you're complaining how much it costs to fill your SUV/pick-up/muscle car at $4.00 per gallon, then you're a damn idiot.

[MP-Ryan]

I have no pity for those that drive oversized vehicles and ***** about gas prices, but I do feel the North American pain that - unless you live in a city of 5+ million - you probably need a car.  Especially if you have kids.  It's fine for you Europeans to talk about living closer to where you work, not needing a car because you can walk or take transit, but the sad thing is that in the distance I drive to take my son to visit his grandparents - crossing only one provincial border - I could cross up to 5 European countries.  Maybe more.  (I love having this talk with my British in-laws who think a 3-hour 300 km drive is a long way and cannot be done twice in one day, particularly since I've driven close to 500 km one way out and then back again on work trips in an 8.5 hr day... but I digress).  In Canada, if you live outside of Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal and you hold down a job, you almost certainly need a vehicle.

That said - if you think $4/gallon is bad, just wait until politics trumps science and some dumbass politician in the States or Europe gets hydrocarbons derived from oilsands labelled as somehow "worse" than other hydrocarbons.  The US gets by far the majority of its oil from Canada, and a primary reason why prices are staying so low is the oilsands.

The sad thing is that here in Alberta, living literally 26 km from the nearest refinery, and the oil comes out of the ground less than 100 km from it, I'm still paying $109.9/L for gas.

[Aardwolf]

Quasi-interesting tidbit: my dad gets 55 mpg with a 1992 Honda Civic VX hatchback.

[General Battuta]

literally every person in europe lives in a hive city four miles across

Obviously you've never been to Finland.

obviously you have trouble reading posts

solution to all energy problems is to install molten salt reactors on cars

[redsniper]

molten salt reactors on cars

Yes, this. I approve of this. Let's also put gull-wing doors and flux capacitors on all cars. Kthx.

[Klaustrophobia]

i'm good with my internal combustion SUV, thanks.

[Dark RevenantX]

Prices suck for me.

I own a reasonably fuel-efficient coupe.  I have to drive 60 miles (97 km) on average, 5 days per week (that's including getting to and from college and occasional shopping -- which I don't waste much gas on because I go shopping on the way back from college -- plus various things I go to for social/school life).  My surface street speed is on average 40 MPH (64 kph) and my freeway speed is, on a clear day, 70 MPH (113 kph) on average.  If I went any slower, I'd eventually be rear-ended on the freeway.  Most cars are going 75 - 80 MPH when/where I have to drive.

This equates to $35 per week at the pump at the current gas rates, at about $45 per fill-up.  These are Costco Gas rates, which are the best in California.  $140 per month really hurts when I basically make $8,000 per year.  I can't do much to decrease my fuel consumption; I have to get to college every weekday, my car is as small/fuel-efficient as I could have possibly afforded, I go to the gas station with the best rates, I don't take unnecessary trips, etc.  I guess I'm just kinda shafted for living in San Diego, which lacks good public transportation, it has terrible sidewalk access in many suburbs, and it has one of the world's most pronounced cases of urban sprawl, basically forcing everyone to own a car.

[Grizzly]

Yep. Its up to 1,80 euros per liter here in the Netherlands.

Whoa whoa whoa

There's a country in the Euroet Union that has more expensive gas than we have here in Finland? Congratulations, how did you guys manage that? What sort of gas is that, 98E5?

And doesn't this lead to a huge race of drivers going to Germany, filling their thanks with slightly cheaper gas (~1.61 €/lite IIRC), further increasing the prices in the Netherlands?

I envy those Eastern Finns who live close to Russian border and have the permission to cross the border: gas at 1.05 €/liter and no "green" ethanol injected to it.

When I was a child, about 9 years old, I remember when fuel was about 5 Finnish marks per liter, equalling 0.80 €/liter nowadays. Back then people complained that it is expensive. But I recall as well that it was considerably cheaper in Central Europe. How did you manage to catch us up?

Taxes, in our case. It does lead to people going over the border to get cheaper fuel elsewhere, if they live close enough.

[Mongoose]

I have two younger brothers in college several hours away, and they need that space to haul stuff back and forth.

Clearly, you are correct.  There is no solution to this problem besides owning an SUV.

I am thoroughly enjoying the fact that you just linked to a trailer that requires a vehicle with a trailer hitch and towing capacity.  Like, y'know, a truck or SUV.  I'm fairly certain U-Haul doesn't let you tie those to subcompacts.  For the record, we've rented one of those things a couple of times.  Hell, when my brother and a few of his friends in the same neighborhood were moving into off-campus housing, we had to rent a full-fledged U-Haul truck to fit everything.

How often are they moving back and forth anyway?  The only time at university that I ever had to carry more crap home than could fit in the boot of a compact sedan, was when I was moving in/out of the residence halls, and that was once per semester.  Again, you're basing the decision to buy a four-wheel-drive, three-ton, V8-powered brick on a trip that will be made three or four times a year.  What's it doing the rest of the time?  If you're like most Ford Explorer owners and leasees, it's transporting one person and little to no cargo over well-maintained roads, while drinking two to three times the fuel that a smaller, equally-capable vehicle would use.

My parents wind up making the trip out and back several times a year, depending on what's going on.  You're talking about taking two college kids, plus one or two of their friends most of the time, plus the luggage/food/whatever of said kids, plus one or two adults making the trip.  That's not happening in a subcompact: it'd most likely require two small cars, which would wind up using more gas when all is said and done, not to mention toll fees.  And yes, my dad does drive it to work and back most of the time, but he does so because it leaves the other car free for all of the daily errand-type stuff, which covers more mileage than his commute.  Not to mention the fact that, as I said before, you're not going to be able to cram six adults into any sedan I know of.

If you live on top of a mountain and can only reach civilization via a single-track dirt road that turns to mud six months out of the year, then by all means, drive an SUV (or a half-track for that matter).  If you have nine children to ferry to daycare on a daily basis, first, figure out how condoms work, and then by all means, use that minivan.  If your job requires that you haul 1,200 pounds of lumber from site to site, drive that otherwise obnoxious F-450.  If 95% of your drive-time is spent going between your home and an office, with three or fewer passengers, and little to no cargo, why would you buy anything but a compact hatchback or sedan?  If your answer is anything but "marketing" or "a sales pitch," then you are a damn liar.  And if those are the conditions under which you drive, and you're complaining how much it costs to fill your SUV/pick-up/muscle car at $4.00 per gallon, then you're a damn idiot.

I'm left wondering just what modern brands of SUVs actually have legitimate off-road capabilities, but that's beside the point.  My parents leased the SUV because they legitimately needed the space it provides on a regular basis.  To say that someone should buy a small car just because they're not using a bigger car to its full extent all the time is rather absurd.  And they're not complaining about the gas price hikes any more than anyone else is.  They knew going into the lease what sort of mileage the car would get, but because they needed what they had to offer, that's what they went with.

[Grizzly]

I'm left wondering just what modern brands of SUVs actually have legitimate off-road capabilities, but that's beside the point.

They don't. A friend of ours is a hunter, and his old Lada SUV has better off-road capabilities then the modern ones, who keep getting stuck in the fields.

My parents leased the SUV because they legitimately needed the space it provides on a regular basis.  To say that someone should buy a small car just because they're not using a bigger car to its full extent all the time is rather absurd.  And they're not complaining about the gas price hikes any more than anyone else is.  They knew going into the lease what sort of mileage the car would get, but because they needed what they had to offer, that's what they went with.

Hmm. My dad (A veterinary surgeon) drives 'round in a Volkswagen Transporter (a van). He once wanted an Land Rover but didn't like them becuase of the lack of space compared to vehicles of a similar size, mainly leg space. Mabye a van is a better solution in this scenario?

[QuantumDelta]

Heh BF... It's about 2 days wages for me for my monthly commute. ;\
You can probably survive without the car in Bristol but honestly, bike isn't the best option, narrow windy roads, drivers that don't give a crap, few bike lanes, and definitely NOT flat terrain (there are 5 hills and 2 valleys between my place of employ and my home, and that's only a distance of about 8miles).

Public transport works out to be about the same as petrol+parking(tiny bit cheaper), 'tis ridiculous.

[Mika]

I actually do own a four wheel drive vehicle, but I'm not sure if it counts as a SUV. It is Subaru Outback with a 2.5 liter engine, I get about 33 miles per gallon or 7 l / 100 km. Pretty good in my opinion for a car of that size and continuous four wheel drive. And I routinely drive 400 km working trips, but for a single day, I find that 400 kilometers and a meeting lasting five hours tends to push the arrival time back at home too late and makes driving back home relatively dangerous due to possibility of falling asleep while driving.

I don't complain about the fuel prices yet, I don't need to drive that much, and there is another person sharing the costs of that car. Actually, for me it wouldn't matter what the fuel price is, I drive that little. But when I drive, I try to drive trips exceeding 50 kms. Come to think of it, the annual cost of the car insurance is about the same as the annual fuel costs.

[Dragon]

I want your car insurance.
In Poland, most offers are a ripoff, as usual. Made worse be the fact the "civilian responsibility" (if you cause a crash, they pay the other guy for repairs) insurance is mandatory.

[S-99]

Quasi-interesting tidbit: my dad gets 55 mpg with a 1992 Honda Civic VX hatchback.

Plenty of 90's cars were awesome in this respect. The next would be the geo metro 4. I had an 94 mercury tracer that got 35 to the gallon.

Stuff i see not fixing anything.

1. I hate how there's so much encouragement and laws about buying new cars around certain states in the US. The newer cars aren't that great. I thought the scion iq was interesting for a car. But, 38 mpg highway when i can get greater that with certain older vehicles is stupid (not to mention the european version of the scion iq was much better on gas even after running the conversion from european gallons to american). This centers a lot around car exhaust propaganda. You can't however, cleanly burn something that can never be cleanly burned. Take care of your vehicle and you'll put out less emissions, even if you don't have a catylytic converter. The second part of this revolves around propaganda saying that older cars aren't as great on gas mileage as said all the time by owners. Propaganda is usually just propaganda though.

2. Ethanol is bull****. So gas companies start producing a lot of ethanol that lowers mpg to get you to stop by the pump more often which also results in more gas getting consumed by consumers.

3. I could give less of a **** about electric vehicles. When electric companies are still burning petroleum for electricity production (at least in alaska i know that is the main source for electricity, undoubtedly other places too), and then i plug my car in to the wall socket...i don't see that as a fix either.

4. Making cars lighter and dinkier isn't the only solution. I rather like my dodge dynasty in that it's a hulk of a mid sized sedan compared to my old paper weight mid sized sedan the mercury tracer. I get 32mpg highway, and it'll survive a wreck better.

Solution:

The real fix to the problem is to change fuel delivery to the engine. Gasoline vapors are what burns, not the liquid gas. Fuel injection is only good for one thing, the computer control behind it. Nothing else is good about it that i see. Squirting raw fuel into an engine is all it really does. Fuel injection has and hasn't helped.

Changing fuel delivery. I cite the shell opel 1. It got 376 mpg. The core of the technology was running the engine off of gas vapors. Granted the opel got that mileage going 30 mph. But, normal road and highway speeds, you'd still be getting above 100 mpg i bet.

Petroleum. People keep saying it's going to run out, and it appears to be anything but running out. We're still tapping more and more of it out of the ground each year, and big companies charge whatever the hell they want for it. There's no certain alotment for how many gallons we're allowed each day if say there was an actual shortage.

Change fuel delivery, or have molten salt reactors i say.

Stuff i could do was:

As far as i go with my chrysler 3 liter v6. I just put in iridium spark plugs to up fuel efficiency (and so i don't have to change the spark plugs for a really long time), new fuel filter, cleaned my k&n air filter (looks like new), new timing belt, and an oil change to some good but affordable synthetic oil. The enhanced fuel economy has been fantastic so far (i'm curious how much better than 32mpg highway i'll be getting).

I do like late 80's and 90's cars, that's where i think car technology was greatest. It's also a measure i use to see how much vehicles haven't changed aside from safety features. MOAR MOAR MOAR airbags and autocorrecting drive assist was really all that changed.

The gas prices in the last week up here in alaska have been horrible to say the least. A 30 cent jump over night. The next day was a 23 cent jump on top of that. Just the big businesses making as much money as possible

[redsniper]

Petroleum. People keep saying it's going to run out, and it appears to be anything but running out. We're still tapping more and more of it out of the ground each year, and big companies charge whatever the hell they want for it. There's no certain alotment for how many gallons we're allowed each day if say there was an actual shortage.

We actually are running out. We're getting diminishing returns. That is, we extract fewer usable barrels of oil for every barrel burned in the whole drilling, extraction, refining process. There's oil out there, it's just that we already got all the easy to get oil and what's left is a real PITA to extract. Screw it all and build more nuke reactors. Also pour tons of money into fusion research.

[WeatherOp]

My monthly gas bill for work travel is $35-40. 

And that is at $3.70 a gallon.

[IceFire]

Petroleum. People keep saying it's going to run out, and it appears to be anything but running out. We're still tapping more and more of it out of the ground each year, and big companies charge whatever the hell they want for it. There's no certain alotment for how many gallons we're allowed each day if say there was an actual shortage.

We actually are running out. We're getting diminishing returns. That is, we extract fewer usable barrels of oil for every barrel burned in the whole drilling, extraction, refining process. There's oil out there, it's just that we already got all the easy to get oil and what's left is a real PITA to extract. Screw it all and build more nuke reactors. Also pour tons of money into fusion research.

Double thumbs up.

We are pulling quite a bit of oil out of the ground right now but the world has changed from the 1960s. You now have very large populations joining our relatively small North American and European populations (which have also grown in the last 70 years) who also are driving around vehicles that consume oil and there are more and more of them each year. China is now the biggest automotive market and it is beginning to dwarf the North American one. So there is a fair bit of oil still flowing but more and more people want it too... the oil producers are optimistic each year but the thing is that nobody will truly have a handle on when we've past the peak oil amount until we're already heading downwards.

I'm fairly convinced that we won't have a stark moment where the oil tap suddenly runs dry... but we will have a steady climb to the point where oil and everything petroleum based is going to begin to be priced out of range. At which point I hope that we've either perfected another means or we've radically restructured our economies and our cities. Or there will be riots. If oil prices dramatically climbed to say $15 a gallon in the US... that country would effectively stop. So would several others. Everything is structured around personal transportation. People living in dense urban centers would also not be immune as lots of items are made from petroleum based products. We're getting better at making things from more renewable sources (thank goodness) but it's far better to start the research and the switch over slowly than to have a much harder stop. That'll hurt big time.

Also so far as vehicle safety goes. Thinking that you're safe because you have a big hunk of heavy metal around you is very old thinking. Crash cages, crumple zones, air bags, pre-charged breaks, and other technologies go a very long way towards protecting the occupants of the vehicle involved in the crash. Sure a giant boat of a car from the 1960s will survive the accident...but the occupants will be swiss cheese. I encourage everyone to go find the Fifth Gear vehicle safety video on YouTube or look up the GM crash testing where they take an old Malibu (1960s or 1970s era I can't remember) and crash it into a new Malibu. Despite the loss of a classic car in the test... I think the video is illuminating. Mass plays a role but where the energy from the mass goes is the important bit.

To steer my little side note back on topic... fuel economy standards are doing pretty well towards pushing companies to invest in alternative technologies and improve their efficiency. I'm talking about everything from plugin hybrids to twin turbo small displacement engines in mid-size sedans and crossovers. Far better fuel economy (under much more difficult testing standards) than we've had previously. I was recently reading about a inline 3 from Ford with a 1.0 litre displacement with power and torque that was better than the standard 1.6L that is currently available in cars like the Fiesta. No idea on the refinement of the engine (not sure how you balance a I3)... Mazda has some sort of new engine intake system that is like that on race cars. I wasn't sure on the details but the fuel economy and power sounded pretty good. Cool things are happening in the auto industry and it should at least make buying a new car an affordable thing when you go to fill it up.

We still need a good alternative to gas sometime.

[S-99]

Also so far as vehicle safety goes. Thinking that you're safe because you have a big hunk of heavy metal around you is very old thinking.

More or less what i'm getting at is i'll trust my car fairing better in protecting the occupants because it doesn't have paper thin sheet metal lining the outside of my it compared to my old one. In other words, handling impacts slightly better, and doing much better at not so wreckish kinds of things like roll overs. It wont handle anything else better than that compared to my old one.

[IceFire]

Also so far as vehicle safety goes. Thinking that you're safe because you have a big hunk of heavy metal around you is very old thinking.

More or less what i'm getting at is i'll trust my car fairing better in protecting the occupants because it doesn't have paper thin sheet metal lining the outside of my it compared to my old one. In other words, handling impacts slightly better, and doing much better at not so wreckish kinds of things like roll overs. It wont handle anything else better than that compared to my old one.

When you put it that way it does sound like a bit of a step up, for sure

[Black Wolf]

Averages about $1.50 AUD per litre here for fuel, and again, you pretty much need a car - public transport is pretty ordinary, and distances are huge.

That said, you Americans need to consider the big picture here. The reason your petrol is approaching the price paid by the rest of the civilized world is because the oil price has stabilised around $100 USD a barrel. This, along with improved extraction technology (mostly fracking) has made the oil shale reserves in Dakota and that area a viable resource all of a sudden. If the proce stays high enough to justify setting up the infrastructure, you'll get the energy independence that's so important in a lot of your politics without needing to drill the piss out of the Alaskan wilderness area.

Every cloud...