Author Topic: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]  (Read 96013 times)

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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1

Gahaha. Damn BioWare, you really thought you were being dark and edgy. The Mass Effect series is not Inception.

Sort of puts a nail in the coffin of indoctrination theory.


It's a work of fiction. It's not a documentary or a record of something that actually happened.

Alternate interpretations are not really in the original writer's hands in any published work of fiction - the readers (or players in this case) are always free to have their own take on the events, even surpassing the Word of God type revelations from the writers.

Since some parts of the ending are not logically consistent, I can freely draw conclusions that something in it didn't add up, and I choose to interpret what I saw so that Shepard was incapacitated by Harbinger's beam for unknown period of time, dreamt up the Citadel episode, and somehow got dragged in the middle of some debris. After unspecified amount of time, he or she wakes up if the EMS value was high enough.

After that, what happens is all up to my imagination, or someone else's imagination maybe.

I certainly feel better about the game when I think that the Citadel episode never really happened, and that everything after being hit by the Reaper beam was a hallucination or dream. Obviously, it leaves it completely open what actually might happen if and when Shepard wakes up, but I can take that over the proposed (apparent) canon endings*. That way, I can have several scenarios unfolding from that point onward, and I think that is actually gives tremendous potential for Mass Effect fan fiction, to provide N amount of alternate endings that still sort of can be reasoned to fit with what the game shows you.



I must say though that I feel rather bad for the writers of the ending, as well as Bioware's Twitter account managers. The writers because obviously no one intentionally wants to make a bad story - they thought it was a good ending, and then everyone starts slamming them left, right and center, and the controversy involving the ending largely overshadows the general feeling of the game, which was great! The good parts of ME3 are treated rather unfairly in my opinion, and the public relations people are getting the brunt of the ****storm.

In a way, the greatest testament to the quality and success of Mass Effect series is the strength of the reaction the endings sparked in so many players. People don't get so worked up for something they don't care for.



*My biggest reason to disapprove the current endings is not that I dislike the end results themselves. They're not too bad as such, and I don't specifically desire for a "golden ending", but there is not enough variation in them. that the style of writing has an abrupt shift after entering Citadel. It doesn't follow through on any of the different variations that the Galaxy might be in due to Shepard's choices, and the final choices themselves are basically the Reapers giving Shepard an ultimatum to choose between three options - two of which mean certain death and the last one doesn't explain why the Geth and EDI are getting destroyed along with the Reapers - if the Destroy algorithm or whatever was smart enough to differentiate between "synthetic life" and regular machinery and computers, why wasn't it smart enough to differentiate between the Reapers and the Geth, or the Reapers and EDI? They are quite different entities after all. They have no shared ancestry, and the only thing common to Reapers was the Geth's new processing code. It just smells like a false dichotomy that you must choose between destruction of ALL synthetics, or destruction of none.

And I don't even want to go into the bad biological and technological knowledge that seems to be behind the "Synthesis" ending. New DNA indeed.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 
Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
Finally finished it after coming home from an evening at the bar to celebrate a friend's 21st birthday.

Being half drunk greatly improved the ending, I think.

 

Offline Liberator

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
I must say though that I feel rather bad for the writers of the ending, as well as Bioware's Twitter account managers. The writers because obviously no one intentionally wants to make a bad story - they thought it was a good ending, and then everyone starts slamming them left, right and center, and the controversy involving the ending largely overshadows the general feeling of the game, which was great! The good parts of ME3 are treated rather unfairly in my opinion, and the public relations people are getting the brunt of the ****storm.
I think the issue people are having isn't that the endings are necessarily bad(dunno haven't played it), but that they bear little to no relation to the events that happened before "the end" started, an that it seems to be almost completely self-contained within itself.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
That is a big part of it; essentially the endings condense everything you do into a single numerical value, and that combined with your three choices determines how well you do.

Of course it's really hard to do badly enough to get one of the endings where the colourful effect destroys everything and everyone, so effectively it's still just three endings, and worse still they are almost identical to begin with.


For a more in-depth analysis of the endings,

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1

Posting the thread of lies, so i can find it later

10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 
Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
Quoting above link here in case it gets disappeared:

Quote from: cato_84 on the Bioware Social Network
Whether or not you enjoyed the conclusion to Mass Effect 3 (personally I feel
it tarnished an otherwise masterful series) please take a look at the
pre-release quotes below from websites and interviews with the game's
developers, writers and producers.

Does all that talk of meaningful player choice, multiple significantly
different endings and closure for the characters and series not seem,
at the very least, strange?

I believe Bioware can be legitimately accused of, at best, fudging the
truth if not outright deceit given the inconsistency between notions
of choice, closure etc. expressed before the game was released and
the ending as it currently stands.

In my opinion Bioware produced a badly written, ill-conceived shambles
of an ending riddled with plot holes and logical inconsistencies but
even if you loved the final moments of this great game do you really
think what was stated in the interviews below has been proved true?

Maybe Walters, Gamble, Hudson et al will be proved right when a decent
ending is released via (presumably free) DLC that explains the
original ending was just some sort of hallucination/indoctrination.
I'm not holding my breath waiting for that though.


Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/mass-effect-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/05/qa-mass-effect-3s-mac-walters-on-how-the-game-tries-to-reach-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/334598/interviews/mass-effect-3-weve-brought-back-a-lot-of-what-was-missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/interview/mass-effect-3-has-many-different-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-02-bioware-mass-effect-3-ending-will-make-some-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/28/casey-hudson-interview-mass-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/casey-hudson-bioware-co-created-mass-effect-3-with-the-sometimes-cranky-fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
ALERT ALERT:

Casey Hudson acknowledging player outrage, making semi-vague and defensive but still slightly hopeful statements: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/324/index/10089946

 

Offline achtung

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
ALERT ALERT:

Casey Hudson acknowledging player outrage, making semi-vague and defensive but still slightly hopeful statements: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/324/index/10089946

I'm hopeful, but it still stinks of PR-dictated damage control.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
It really does.

I hope we get ending DLC, but frankly I hope BioWare never recovers from this damage. Vindictive as it might sound I'd like this to sting.

 

Offline Fury

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
I hope BioWare never recovers from this damage. Vindictive as it might sound I'd like this to sting.
Exaggerating much? Despite the ending, ME3 is still very good game and I'd hate all that go to waste just because of less than stellar ending. I for one hope that Bioware will take this to heart, remember and learn from it. And will be able to create many good games in the future as well. What happened with DA2 was much more serious than ME3. In fact, the difference is not even comparable. Bioware blew in both cases, but I am sure they have also learned from these mistakes.

How exactly not ever recovering from the damage be for the better? That would suck because it would likely mean we would get even less good games if Bioware is out of the picture or is reduced to one of those no-name developers in tight(er) leash.

Bioware and EA have heard you already, get over it and enjoy the game. Or not, your choice.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
I don't think it's vindictive. I say that not because of the ending or the content of the game, but because the developers were extraordinarily duplicitous (a more theatrical man might even say fraudulent!) in their pre-release marketing.

 

Offline Fury

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
So they sugar coated the ending in their pre-release marketing? Big surprise there, it was marketing. You can't expect them to say "We do have these ending possibilities pieced together but honestly, it's kinda a letdown."

All this rage about ending has shadowed all other ME3 related discussion. Almost every single post is about the dead horse that used to be the ending. Could we already move to other subjects discussing the game?

No? Well, too bad then.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
There's been plenty of discussion concerning other aspects of the game (more elsewhere than here). The problem is that everything you do in the game - in the whole series - is colored by the arrow of causality. You do something and think 'wow, can't wait to see what the consequences of this action/decision are!' and then you think forward and inevitably it all arrives at that cluster**** of a finale.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
The multiplayer is quite fun, although has a few elements that make little sense. I shall list a few here.


1. Kill Important Personnel waves. This really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering the things you slaughter are either:
-Indoctrinated and modified Cerberus troops
-Geth
-Reaper modified/huskified things.

None of these makes much sense for being "very important" in any context of traditional chain of command. Cerberus might be closest, but even so they're still faceless mooks and have no characters of importance among their ranks.

Practically, this mode is also often a huge pain in the arse because there is an arbitrary time limit for killing the "priority targets", and if you fail to kill the single flagged target in time, the whole mission is a failure. What's this supposed to accomplish? You're going to kill all of them anyway to get to the next wave! What does it matter how long that takes or what order you kill all the things in?

This is especially silly when you are getting swamped by Brutes and Banshees and you're supposed to kill an important Cannibal or Marauder.


2. Banshees.

3. Resupply packs not giving enough medi-gel. I can understand that the stuff in them is randomized but medi-gel is probably the most important consumable item you can get from those packs, competing closely with the missiles. Might be better if there were a limited medi-gel supply on the maps themselves.

4. Banshees.

5. Sticky controls. Sometimes Reviving your team mates is a huge pain in the arse, sometimes melee doesn't work, sometimes heavy melee doesn't work. And it takes rather long for the character to start responding after being revived, but that might be game mechanic.

6. Banshees.

7. Lag-sensitive netcode.

8. Banshees.

9. Map glitches, although this thankfully doesn't happen often. An interesting variation can happen in Noveria (Firebase White); Banshees can charge to that elevated balcony which is behind the "camping point" on the walkway, but in this case it actually makes it easier to deal with them, since once they get there they usually also stay there, and their ranged attack can be quite easily evaded as long as you see it coming. Then you can just shoot them up.

10. Banshees, and this requires a bit of elaboration.

Even as a boss type enemy, the Banshees are rather hideously overpowered compared to Atlas mech or Geth Primes. They can move ridiculously fast with their biotic chain charge thingy, they have a wide area effect power that just destroys your shields, and as a final insult they have insta-kill grab of rather ridiculous range. Their ranged attack is a homing biotic blast which, although it can be evaded, is still very dangerous if it hits you. They also have ludicrous amount of armour hitpoints; their barriers aren't all that strong, but they can recharge them if they aren't under continuous attack. Thankfully the armour doesn't regenerate.

Brutes and Ravagers are also hideously annoying, but they don't feel unfairly out of balance. They don't really feel too much more dangerous than, say, Phantoms or Geth Pyros. The Reaper faction SHOULD be the hardest of them all, but as it is, the Banshees are pretty much the single most horrible thing I have ever had to deal with in any computer game. In single-player, they thankfully don't make that many appearances and when they do, you can sort of manage with them, but in multiplayer they are single-handedly responsible for making the Reaper faction such a difficult enemy.


However, I'm not sure if I would support them being nerfed or not. They are also hideous and creepy, and the sound they emit is awfully horrifying, but these things are actually good design features, and the terror they inspire in game really matches their appearance, the way they move, how they sound. Maybe it should remain something that we love to hate.


Overall it's great fun though.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
1. Kill Important Personnel waves. This really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering the things you slaughter are either:
-Indoctrinated and modified Cerberus troops
-Geth
-Reaper modified/huskified things.

None of these makes much sense for being "very important" in any context of traditional chain of command. Cerberus might be closest, but even so they're still faceless mooks and have no characters of importance among their ranks.

Practically, this mode is also often a huge pain in the arse because there is an arbitrary time limit for killing the "priority targets", and if you fail to kill the single flagged target in time, the whole mission is a failure. What's this supposed to accomplish? You're going to kill all of them anyway to get to the next wave! What does it matter how long that takes or what order you kill all the things in?

This is especially silly when you are getting swamped by Brutes and Banshees and you're supposed to kill an important Cannibal or Marauder.
Honestly ? who cares ? Multi doesn't have to make sense in any way. Plus, objective-based waves are a great addition to multi. Would you want to just have to kill wave after wave after wave after wave ? and, to be honest, the "holding the position" objective is faaaaaaaaar more difficult and frustrating than the "kill important enemies" objective.

2. Banshees.
4. Banshees.
6. Banshees.
8. Banshees.
10. Banshees
Yeah, like you said, those should remain the ennemies we love to hate. And they aren't actually THAT difficult. This is basically what you have to do :

1) Kill them as soon as possible (note that under sustain fire, they can't teleport)
2) Failing #1, run the **** out and kill everything else. Banshees aren't very dangerous on their own, as long as you aren't stupid enough to stay at execution range. Infiltrator's cloak or Vanguard's charge helps a ****ton lot to get out of the dangerous zones.
3) Missiles. Especially if there's a brute, a ravager or another banshee close enough to kill them all in a single missile. Happens quite often in silver. Remember that your own missiles can't kill you nor your teamates. Aim at the floor to make sure you don't miss.

3. Resupply packs not giving enough medi-gel. I can understand that the stuff in them is randomized but medi-gel is probably the most important consumable item you can get from those packs, competing closely with the missiles. Might be better if there were a limited medi-gel supply on the maps themselves.
Don't use medigel unless you really have to (aka revive time running out or trooper going to execute you). Especially if you have good teamates with you, and especially if they are infiltrators with cloak. Medigel is rare, but we can get as many revive as we want. Hell, I nearly spend as much time reviving teamates than actually killing stuff. Actually, if you're at the end of a wave and you still have teamates alive and kicking, let yourself die rather than waste a medigel.

Also, equipment packs have 100% chance to give you 5 medigels for 20k. If you ever run out of medigel, buy some of those. Oh, and there are random items that can increase the number of medigel you carry in each game. I can already carry 3 medigels instead of 2.

5. Sticky controls. Sometimes Reviving your team mates is a huge pain in the arse, sometimes melee doesn't work, sometimes heavy melee doesn't work. And it takes rather long for the character to start responding after being revived, but that might be game mechanic.
9. Map glitches, although this thankfully doesn't happen often.
Yup, I blame lag on that. It's usually the only sign of any lag whatsoever, since the game has client-side hit detection. I also found that going in and back out of cover sometimes solves the melee bug, too.

7. Lag-sensitive netcode.
Riiiiiiight. I... don't think a netcode that isn't sensible to latency is physically possible.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Offline newman

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
I'm a bit late, having finished the game yesterday. I tried to avoid spoilers as best I could, but short of shutting off my router and phones, and locking myself in the house, it was completely impossible to avoid the outcry of the enraged internet over the endings. Not surprisingly, I didn't find the endings nearly as bad as I expected based on the reactions of the furious internet population.

To be clear, I don't find the endings actually good - I just don't find them too worse than some other game's. It's interesting to see the amount of emotional response the community has given this. I think that, what we've been given could have been a solid base - a bare-bone story guideline for the endings. What's missing, however, is essential information that should really give us some closure here. First of all, we've spent 3 games and countless DLC's over the course of 5-6 years making choices in this world they've come up with. We expected these choices would amount for something more than differently colored explosions - and they didn't. Secondly, they said that they didn't want to give you too much information you didn't "need to know". They went way too far and cut out so much of it that nobody can make out what really happened after the beam run. Lots of questions remained unanswered.

There's been some response to the outcry. Articles calling the games "art" and saying that it is what it is, and shouldn't be changed because the consumers want it. Some went so far to compare this to famous painters changing their paintings according to people's preferences - which is a bull**** analogy; you can't compare a pure work of art to a mass consumer product that features some art, sure, but is primarily intended as entertainment.

But, Bioware doesn't need to change what happened with the endings. They could just add information that puts them in context and explains what really happened. As it is, I can't really blame people for suspecting that everything past the beam run was a dream - it certainly feels that way, because nothing really makes sense and everything is just.. off. Like in a messed up dream.
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFq531vkNOY&hd=1
I think the first minute of this angry joe review sums up the playing experience of ME3 for most people.  :p
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Valathil

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
but i played with a mouse and keyboard
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Offline Ransom

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
oh no. OH NO. BIOWARE NO NO NOOOOOO

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Mass Effect 3: You Invaded the Wong Planet [SPOILERS]
oh no. OH NO. BIOWARE NO NO NOOOOOO

tell me more