Author Topic: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)  (Read 89430 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Goblix

  • 24
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Both of these ships are just stunning. I really love the direction you've taken with the ships giving them harder edges.

It's great to see these updated as well, visuals wise they were some of the ugliest ships in Blue Planet, the mod really needed this!

Great job, I'm anxious to see what you do with the other TEI warships.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Discussion in the other thread reminds me - when you redo the Raynor, please kill those awful mid-hull struts.

 
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Discussion in the other thread reminds me - when you redo the Raynor, please kill those awful mid-hull struts.
Oh thank god.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
What do you call strut ?
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
There's a gap about two-thirds down the Raynor's hull that's bridged by these three girders. It doesn't make much sense, and sort of ruins the illusion that this is a colossal warship which can, in spite of its slim profile, shrug off thermonuclear-yield hits.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
So it doesn't bother you on both the Chimera and the Bellerophon, but suddenly, out of the blue, it's awful on the Raynor ?

It doesn't make much sense
Since when does it have to be ? Have you ever heard about something called Rule of Cool ?

So yeah, sure, let's remove all the distinctive features from our ships ! What could possibly go wrong ?
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
The reason it doesn't bother me on the Chimera and the Belle is that it looks good there, and it doesn't on the Raynor. It's not cool, it doesn't contribute to its overall impact on the viewer (unlike on the corvettes, which are supposed to give the glass-cannon impression).

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
I think it looks good where it is. It's also consistent with other Stratcomm's ships.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
The Chimera and Bellerophon are basically beam cannons with engines attached to them. Making them bulkier would delay their entry into service, and make them more expensive, two things the GTVA can not really afford. Geting them out there now and then maybe bulking them up later makes more sense as it gets enormous amounts of firepower on target quickly.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
The Chimera and Bellerephon are both beam cannons with engines. They're designed to jump in, obliterate their target with one or two beam salvos, and get out. If they're destroyed in the course of this, they're expendable. It makes perfect sense for the GTVA to skimp on structure and armor on these ships in the interests of saving costs and increasing speed and maneuverability. You can even make a rule of cool argument about leaving the beam cannon tubes (which is what the spindles on these two ships are) open to space to promote cooling, even though in reality this wouldn't work.

The Raynor is designed to get in the thick of things and fight as a line warship, as evidenced by having its beams and torpedoes dispersed across its hull rather than all clustered forward. It needs to keep the admiral onboard safe while he directs the battle, and as a destroyer it is absolutely not expendable. The spindles don't line up to any of the Raynor's beam cannons; they're just there, and serve no purpose other than making the Raynor look like something you could snap over your knee like a twig.

The Raynor's spindles are the science fiction equivalent of this:


 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
The reason it doesn't bother me on the Chimera and the Belle is that it looks good there
Works for me.

and it doesn't on the Raynor.
Wait what.

It's not cool, it doesn't contribute to its overall impact on the viewer (unlike on the corvettes, which are supposed to give the glass-cannon impression).
140k HP and a frontal HBlue/BBlue pair still enter the glass cannon category to me. A Raynor is still Shivan beam fodder, much more than even the Chimera and Bellerophon if you look at volume/HP ratio.

In any case, who cares about all of that. We're all trying to make sense about stuff, which is completely irrelevant here. This gap is a distinctive feature, and there is just no viable reason to remove it out of the blue.

People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
140k HP and a frontal HBlue/BBlue pair still enter the glass cannon category to me. A Raynor is still Shivan beam fodder, much more than even the Chimera and Bellerophon if you look at volume/HP ratio.
The HP of corvettes relative to destroyers in FreeSpace has never made a whole lot of sense.

In WiH, at least, the tabled hitpoints are (often) bull**** that get replaced with special hits and armor categories that reflect the ships' actual capabilities.

 

Offline Rodo

  • Custom tittle
  • 212
  • stargazer
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
I concur, the Raynor's girders should disappear.
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline pecenipicek

  • Roast Chicken
  • 211
  • Powered by copious amounts of coffee and nicotine
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • PeceniPicek's own deviantart page
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
i'm with matththegeek on the subject at hand currently.
Skype: vrganjko
Ho, ho, ho, to the bottle I go
to heal my heart and drown my woe!
Rain may fall and wind may blow,
and many miles be still to go,
but under a tall tree I will lie!

The Apocalypse Project needs YOU! - recruiting info thread.

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
In any case, who cares about all of that. We're all trying to make sense about stuff, which is completely irrelevant here. This gap is a distinctive feature, and there is just no viable reason to remove it out of the blue.
There is one and that one you already brought up yourself: "Rule of cool". If someone can come up with something that looks better, while still leaving the ship easily recognizable as the Raynor, wouldn't that be a good thing?

As for me, I don't much mind them being there or being gone, as long as it looks good, though there is one matter to consider: Access to the fighterbay. Due to those girders making up the middle of the ship, it was possible to get to the hanger "through" the ship rather than having to fly around it, if you happened to be on the side opposite the bay. While I don't think it is enough of a balance change to matter, I thought it best to mention it at least, to bring it back to memory.

 
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
The reason it doesn't bother me on the Chimera and the Belle is that it looks good there
Works for me.

and it doesn't on the Raynor.
Wait what.

It's not cool, it doesn't contribute to its overall impact on the viewer (unlike on the corvettes, which are supposed to give the glass-cannon impression).
140k HP and a frontal HBlue/BBlue pair still enter the glass cannon category to me. A Raynor is still Shivan beam fodder, much more than even the Chimera and Bellerophon if you look at volume/HP ratio.

In any case, who cares about all of that. We're all trying to make sense about stuff, which is completely irrelevant here. This gap is a distinctive feature, and there is just no viable reason to remove it out of the blue.

Erm, no. It's still not a glass  cannon. Maybe by heavy destroyer standards, but not by normal standards--which still place the Raynor in the "looks like a battlestar except for that random part in the middle that makes it seem like a twig".

Rather, the Raynor looks beefy, solid, and great--except for those struts. Random, and REALLY, REEEEAAAAALLY jarring. Imagine having the back-half of a superbattleship connected to the front half solely by a trio of struts? It takes you RIGHT out of your suspension of disbelief, and you're instead focusing on questions like "what the hell? That makes no sense. Why is that there? It goes completely against the notion of a destroyer-of-the-line..."

It looks completely out of place, makes no sense whatsoever from any design standpoint (the Raynor is NOT a glass cannon destroyer, nor is it a shock-ship with 90% of its firepower directed solely at the front, with minimal armor), breaks suspension of disbelief/is extremely jarring, and is a kind of design feature you'd ONLY (and I do mean ONLY) see in ships that either aren't supposed to see action (like medical ships) or are supposed to be cheap and expendable, which the Raynor is most certainly not. It's a massive structural, logistical, psychological, and engineering weakness, not just in the face of enemy fire, but even under basic operation (all traffic between the front and back halves of the ship is seriously bottlenecked, including traffic of material and energy; the ship has DRASTICALLY weaker structural integrity and tolerances for maneuvers).

If you want to replace it with a solid, yet still comparatively slim section of the ship, then I guess that's much better, but it's still stupid--it's a major flaw in design that can be exploited, and runs counter to the role the Raynor is designed to fill.
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
There is one and that one you already brought up yourself: "Rule of cool". If someone can come up with something that looks better, while still leaving the ship easily recognizable as the Raynor, wouldn't that be a good thing?
The problem is that the Raynor has very little distinctive elements aside from this gap. You remove that, the Raynor becomes just Yet Another dull warship. I do not doubt that it is possible to make an awesome-looking ship from the Raynor after removing the gap. It just won't be the Raynor anymore after that, it will be another cool ship.

It looks completely out of place, makes no sense whatsoever from any design standpoint
Ahem. Try to follow the conversation please :
We're all trying to make sense about stuff, which is completely irrelevant here.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
I think it's always a good policy to put something of a ship's flavor and role into its design, and I don't think the girder bits on the Raynor achieve that - to my eye they work against it.

Maybe they're there to enable multi vector attack mode. number one, separate the saucer section

 
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
It looks completely out of place, makes no sense whatsoever from any design standpoint
Ahem. Try to follow the conversation please :
We're all trying to make sense about stuff, which is completely irrelevant here.
If you don't care whether the ship designs make sense or not, that's fine. That's your position. You're entitled to hold it, and you're entitled to defend it. You're not entitled to unilaterally declare discussion of the subject over.

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
I'm not making any public comments about the Raynor until I finish the Chimera, the Bellerophon, and the Hyperion.  Have barely planned any of it out, though I'm really looking forward to starting it.

A couple points to consider: The front end, with all those black supports, looks a bit weird/almost like lego. Is there a way to add detail in the texture to make it look better?

There are some very large stretches of flat space with nothing to break up the surface. The back of the four wings (?) are the worst offenders. Again, maybe something in the texture could alleviate this?
  I've resolved the first one quite nicely, I think.  Used the same texture that's on the supports of the current model.  Looks much better.



On the second point: I know, believe me.  Annoys me too.  I'm hoping the markings I'm adding will alleviate it somewhat, but I have absolutely no idea what to do with the back of the wings.  Adding more geometry would be difficult, since I'm pretty much out of space on the texture after adding the LIDAR system.  I'm taking suggestions.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 06:36:32 pm by Aesaar »