[TrashMan]

When you use language, it has both connotative and denotative meanings.  For example, the denotative meaning of 'gay' is happy, or homosexual.  The contextual connotative meaning of someone saying "that's gay" is that they are actually saying "that's stupid/ridiculous."  This is one of the ways language is used to alter public sentiment or subvert language to express a politicized meaning.  The common modern usage (among the young and the immature) of the word 'rape' when someone says "I hope I don't get raped at [game/activity/etc]" is to mean "I hope I don't fail / become a victim / lose /etc."  It's taking a word that has a horrific meaning and repurposing it to lessen the actual nature of the acts it denotatively describes, marginalizing a victimized population even further.

I know that sounds like a lot of sociological/psychological drivel, but language is a tool used for communicating hidden as well as overt meanings, and the speed with which particular forms of language are adopted by younger generations often means a term or phrase enters common usage with a meaning it never had, and loses or alters its denotative meaning.  The fact that people are willing to use the word "rape" to describe the outcome of a video game knowing full well that it actually refers to one of if not the most despicable and horrific acts one person can perpetrate on another (and gender doesn't really enter into this, other than to say that most documented cases are male on female) is a pretty good commentary on how meaning gets subverted to minimize acts that some segments of the population condone or at least do not condemn.

Meaning is important.  Many people aren't careful with how they convey it, particularly young people who are just learning this lesson.  This is why it's important for younger forumites like Titan to receive that feedback in a constructive way rather than reach their twenties and thirties and figure out that every reasonable person around them thinks they're a complete and total asshole because of the way they use language.  Again, meaning doesn't just convey opinion, but it lets other people form opinion of the person who is conveying the meanining - hence why the usage of the word rape in this context makes me say that anyone doing it is childish, immature, disrespectful, or all of the above.

So how is "my team got murdered" any better?

And I do wonder why a word having multieel meanings suddenly marginalizes the victim?

[Flipside]

Problem is, there's a worrying level of misogyny involved in the idea that rape 'isn't that terrible' purely because you can survive it. You can survive Cancer.

I have worked with and talked to women who have been sexually abused in various ways, be it by members of family, friends or complete strangers, though I haven't spoken to any men in the same position, or at least, have admitted to it (there is a far greater stigma attached to admitting being the victim of sexual assault when you are male) and whilst many of them have indeed managed to cope with the damage and get on with their lives, it is a violation that never quite goes away, you spend the rest of your life struggling to trust people.

As I said before, I don't think it will go away, but that doesn't make it right. I don't think slavery will go away entirely, or racism, or homophobia, but the more casually we approach the subject, the less serious it becomes, and that makes it far harder for the victims of actual rape to get people to understand what is so terrible about it.

[Spoon]

Good posts Battuta&MP-Ryan
I have nothing more to say.

And so, Rape, when used in the context of say "League of Legends" (which is an exercise of misery in itself), is perfectly acceptable. Because no other word brings the same mental imagery as Rape when you get utterly destroyed by 4-5 enemy players at the same time and your teammates are no where to be seen to save your ass from the coming humiliation and violation.

Hahaha true that 

[General Battuta]

Good posts Battuta&MP-Ryan
I have nothing more to say.

And so, Rape, when used in the context of say "League of Legends" (which is an exercise of misery in itself), is perfectly acceptable. Because no other word brings the same mental imagery as Rape when you get utterly destroyed by 4-5 enemy players at the same time and your teammates are no where to be seen to save your ass from the coming humiliation and violation.

Hahaha true that 

Thanks! This has been a pretty good thread.

I think what Flipside said is really important - one of the big problems with tackling rape as a social issue is that people aren't convinced it's actually all that bad. I guess that's part of why I'm uncomfortable with using the term casually, even though I've done it before and probably will again.

[TrashMan]

Here is my explanation as to why Rape is a perfectly useful description for getting your ass kicked in a game.

Rape in a videogame is when:
You get your ass handed to you so badly that you feel HUMILIATED AND VIOLATED ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

Just like real rape.

I don't think losing a video game is anything 'just like real rape'. It's not something which is a source of enormous shame for both men and women, or something with thousands of years of history, or something that we learn from a young age is a good reason for suicide or self-immolation.

Don't get me wrong, I've used the term too, but I think it's important to think about it and what you're actually saying: 'I'm so unconcerned about rape that it's about as important to me as losing a video game.' That's not a privilege women have.

having to play league of legends is pretty bad though i'll give you that

Except that's not what you are saiyng. That what you infer someone is saying.
And what someone else infers is none of my buisness.

[MP-Ryan]

Here is my explanation as to why Rape is a perfectly useful description for getting your ass kicked in a game.

Rape in a videogame is when:
You get your ass handed to you so badly that you feel HUMILIATED AND VIOLATED ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

Just like real rape.

I don't think losing a video game is anything 'just like real rape'. It's not something which is a source of enormous shame for both men and women, or something with thousands of years of history, or something that we learn from a young age is a good reason for suicide or self-immolation.

Don't get me wrong, I've used the term too, but I think it's important to think about it and what you're actually saying: 'I'm so unconcerned about rape that it's about as important to me as losing a video game.' That's not a privilege women have.

having to play league of legends is pretty bad though i'll give you that

Moreover, as I said above:

Your usage may also be denotatively correct (if exaggerated, as in the case illustrated by Quanto). It really doesn't upset me that you feel the need to use the word 'rape' in that context, but it does make me form my own judgements about the type of person you are based on the way you communicate.  This is more and more important as people put more about themselves on the Internet - other people are not just attuned to the meaning you convey, but also the way in which you convey it.

[TrashMan]

Aside from the Trashman posts this has been a pretty good thread.

Aside from your existance, this has been a pretty good life.

[MP-Ryan]

And what someone else infers is none of my buisness.

And if you're perfectly fine with everyone around you who listens to both the meaning you convey and the way you convey it thinking that you're an unreasonable, insensitive asshole, then holding that opinion is just fine.  Just don't think using language in a way that makes people arrive at that impression is going to make you appear more mature or win you any friends.  Quite the opposite.

[The E]

inb4 I am not here to make friends / I don't care what others think of me / beep beep boop boop

[General Battuta]

Moreover, as I said above:

Your usage may also be denotatively correct (if exaggerated, as in the case illustrated by Quanto). It really doesn't upset me that you feel the need to use the word 'rape' in that context, but it does make me form my own judgements about the type of person you are based on the way you communicate.  This is more and more important as people put more about themselves on the Internet - other people are not just attuned to the meaning you convey, but also the way in which you convey it.

This is also a super cool point, and one I wouldn't have thought of. I'll go ahead and say that it is hypothetically possible, in an ideal world, to use 'rape' in the context of a video game and be cool about it - say, in a world where rape culture was less of a problem.

And, again, I've used 'rape' in the context of games before.

But you should consider what that use signals about you. People may assume that casual use of 'rape' is associated with other, far more problematic behaviors -- misogyny, a lack of empathy for or exposure to women, a lack of consideration for the different challenges women face in their day to day lives.

And those challenges do exist. Women have to deal with a lot of creepy stuff in their day-to-day lives when men don't. Maybe it's as simple as that connection - using 'rape' casually signals you don't care much about women, and even if that isn't actually true for you, it's an assumption others will make because it's true for most people who use 'rape' that way.

e: men have a lot of unique problems too, don't get me wrong

[Scotty]

I had a friend recently who came to play in our BSG board game group. She had a fantastic time and everyone enjoyed her - she was a talented player and very friendly. Afterwards, she said to me: 'that was fun, but really, did they need to use 'rape' so often? Every time it came out I remembered I was the only woman at the table.' If she hadn't confided in me, no one would have known; and if she were a rape survivor, or the friend of one, we would've been triggering those memories every time it happened.

In other words, she is reminded she is a woman by the word rape? Soo...what is the problem with being a woman? Your friend almost sounds like she's ashamed she is one.
Unless she was raped, I'd say the problem is with her, not the word.

What the actual ****.

[Ghostavo]

So, are there any hyperboles involving victimization we can use in a... let's call it "mature"... conversation?

[Polpolion]

So how is "my team got murdered" any better?

And I do wonder why a word having multieel meanings suddenly marginalizes the victim?

Except that's not what you are saiyng. That what you infer someone is saying.
And what someone else infers is none of my buisness.

trashman how can you not fit the idea that this is not a suffering contest into your head? you don't need to be the sole survivor in a rabid baby-eating kitten-killing cannibal attack to have your feelings hurt. it takes remarkably little effort to avoid using words pejoratively, which can go a long way towards making people feel welcome. if you don't feel that you should ever consider other people's feelings before you speak then you are going to have a hard time justifying your presence in any kind of social setting.

it's one thing to say things like "lul that gay blue team raped me last match" when you're alone with your buds that you've known for years and you understand them pretty well, but something entirely different when you're posting on-line in a community that survives only because of public contribution and where your posts are public and permenant.

[StarSlayer]

I'll win eventually!

[Quanto]

Alright.
I am a terrible human being. I just don't give a ****. I could care less about about the emotions and sensitivities of others. If people are gonna get butthurt and anal agonized about the words others choose to use on the internet, its no skin off my back. You see, I spend every public moment (time spent at work, in the grocery store, at the movies, etc.) censoring myself to make sure I don't create a real furball for myself. Being politically correct all the time is a huge pain in the ass. The internet is the only place I can actually let out my inner dark side, and I do so.
Why?
Its a great stress release, and you know what, in a world where everyone is worried that what they say is going to hurt them later, the internet is one of the few safe havens (social networking sites don't count).
Message Boards and Anonymous posting systems are great in that regard, and it really irks me when some asshole decides he needs to spread the social rules of public life to these sanctuaries.
I'm sorry sir, but I must oppose your stance (and that of your like-minded compatriots) and I will do so til the day I die.

[Scotty]

Message Boards and Anonymous posting systems are great in that regard, and it really irks me when some asshole decides he needs to spread the social rules of public life to these sanctuaries.

Right, because it's impossible for there to be rape survivors on the internet, let alone women.

The social rules of public life exist because there are a some pretty goddamn terrible things you can do to people with words.

[MP-Ryan]

So, are there any hyperboles involving victimization we can use in a... let's call it "mature"... conversation?

Hyperbole is a feature of casual speech, and no one is going to judge someone for getting hyped up about a particular issue if its in context.  Let me detour back to something TrashMan raised and I missed a moment ago:

So how is "my team got murdered" any better?

1.  It's denotatively correct (depending on the game).
2.  It carries no additional connotative or politicized meaning.
3.  It does not subvert the original meaning of the term or minimize it.
4.  There is no culture of acceptability around murder - it's one of the universally condemned features of human morality (one of the reasons that justified homicide is not called justified murder, in point of fact).
5.  Unlike 'rape,' 'that's so gay,' 'that's retarded,' etc, murder carries no baggage regarding gender, orientation, ability, or race.  It's a universal affliction.

It's my opinion, but if one must use a hyperbole around victimization, it is preferable to use those that reference either your personal experience or the human experience as a whole, rather than one which has been subverted to marginalize a particular identifiable group of people.  That's not being PC, it's just common respect and courtesy for people who may have experienced or are acutely aware of the victimization that you're minimizing through your speech.

Isn't it interesting that people using victimization hyperbole tend to use those that target groups they do not belong to or care little about?  There's a reason for that.

[General Battuta]

Alright.
I am a terrible human being. I just don't give a ****. I could care less about about the emotions and sensitivities of others. If people are gonna get butthurt and anal agonized about the words others choose to use on the internet, its no skin off my back. You see, I spend every public moment (time spent at work, in the grocery store, at the movies, etc.) censoring myself to make sure I don't create a real furball for myself. Being politically correct all the time is a huge pain in the ass. The internet is the only place I can actually let out my inner dark side, and I do so.
Why?
Its a great stress release, and you know what, in a world where everyone is worried that what they say is going to hurt them later, the internet is one of the few safe havens (social networking sites don't count).
Message Boards and Anonymous posting systems are great in that regard, and it really irks me when some asshole decides he needs to spread the social rules of public life to these sanctuaries.
I'm sorry sir, but I must oppose your stance (and that of your like-minded compatriots) and I will do so til the day I die.

You're right, the Internet is a great safe haven. But should it only be a safe haven for you? What about people who are made to feel unsafe by casual rapechat? If you don't want to care about the emotions or sensitivities of others, why should we care about your desire to vent?

I don't think you're an asshole and I'm sorry you think I'm one. I really enjoyed the time I spent with your project and I always wanted to do more.

[Dragon]

This thread is silly. A heated discussion about words.
Words change meanings all the time, get used to that. For example, a word that once meant "female genitalia" in Polish, now means something like "of poor quality". There's no point in opposing those changes. "Rape" is a short word that's easy to type, so people use it, because it's stronger than "defeated" or "beaten" (which itself was a milder example of this process). They don't actually mean a sexual assault in this case. At some point, we'll most likely get a new term for sexual assault, and "rape" will mean something else by that point (I'd bet on "overwhelmed", since the current word is clumsy). Today's video games do speed up this process, because they're violent, and encourage such drastic comparisons, but it also happens naturally, without any help. This is language development at work, and it's pointless to oppose it. In short, judge people not by words they use, but by the meaning behind them.

[MP-Ryan]

-snip-

What's that quote that's always misattributed to Voltaire - "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."  While I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly, it needs an amendment - "I also reserve the right to form an opinion about you while defending that right."

You're entitled to say whatever you want, to whomever you want, wherever you want - but don't expect people to respect you for it, encourage you to do it, or not judge you based on it.  I totally understand where you're coming from - I just don't happen to respect that sentiment, and how a person chooses to say something unfortunately may or may not speak volumes about that person.  The trouble is, an observer has no way of knowing and will typically incorporate the meaning and method of what one says into what they believe about one, particularly in the absence of body language.  In that sense, a person can be judged even more harshly based on what they say on the Internet than if they said the same thing in person.