Author Topic: Rape, and why it's not a good topic  (Read 55839 times)

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Offline karajorma

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
This comic isn't about rape, but cancer... but maybe it will make you understand what a traumatic event means to someone who has to live with it: http://xkcd.com/1048/

That post manages to sum up what pieces of **** we get on the internet in 3 words.

Quote
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In an ideal world, something like that could just be posted and the only thing you'd get would be messages of condolence. Even in the real world you'd probably be safe. On the net, no chance. You're always going to get some juvenile idiot spouting off about something he knows nothing about.

Which is sorta related to the topic at hand.
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Offline Mikes

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
This was an interesting thread until Mikes had to pontificate.

There are a very few topics where I am not willing to compromise. Downplaying rape is one of them. Sorry.

 

Offline deathfun

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
I wonder if anyone has ever noticed that I've never taken the popular side of an argument...
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Offline jr2

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
Hmm, well, the majority isn't always wrong, you know.  It's not necessarily always right, it's not even necessarily most often right, however, as they say, even a completely broken clock is right twice a day.

If you always pick the unpopular side of an argument, you will sometimes (*cough* maybe just a bit more often than sometimes) be wrong.  I mean, it's one thing to be devil's advocate and look at things from both ends of the spectrum, but it's quite another to stake your claim firmly on the opposing side of an argument.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
I wonder if anyone has ever noticed that I've never taken the popular side of an argument...

you know, that just makes you an antisheep. popularity is independent of the validity of an argument,
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 03:41:35 am by Nuke »
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Offline headdie

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
I wonder if anyone has ever noticed that I've never taken the popular side of an argument...

and what good has it done you?

Like you I dont take the popular view just because it's popular, If I take the popular view it is because it is what I believe to be right, the trick is to be open to the other persons view point and accept sometimes they are right and you are wrong and if so to change your position.  Sometimes you are right but the other(s) wont change their point of view, in that case stop banging your head against a brick wall and move on.

For example I am about the only person in the circle of friends of neighbours who believes that keeping our troops in Afganistan until the situation is stable to prevent a terror backlash in the future, my friends take the opinion that our troops are dying so must be pulled out. Neither side will convince the other so me leave that one alone.
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Offline deathfun

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
What good should it have done?
I take the unpopular side regardless of whether or not I believe in it since it's much more fun
What I actually believe is irrelevant since nobody actually cares for my opinion
Just so long as I can convince you I believe in the side I'm arguing, we're good to go
"No"

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
arguing for the sake of arguing online, is that not the definition of an internet troll?
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Offline FireSpawn

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
arguing for the sake of arguing online, is that not the definition of an internet troll?

Isn't it more about intent? I mean, I've picked the least popular side of an argument just so that I challenge myself with arguing a case I don't personally agree with and promote healthy debate. Just the other day I was arguing with my college mates and teachers about why we should drop a nasty virus in the middle-east, and take over their oil. Do I agree with it? No, I just found the challenge stimulating and the ensuing debate enjoyable.
If you hit it and it bleeds, you can kill it. If you hit it and it doesn't bleed...You are obviously not hitting hard enough.

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Offline deathfun

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
arguing for the sake of arguing online, is that not the definition of an internet troll?

Isn't it more about intent? I mean, I've picked the least popular side of an argument just so that I challenge myself with arguing a case I don't personally agree with and promote healthy debate. Just the other day I was arguing with my college mates and teachers about why we should drop a nasty virus in the middle-east, and take over their oil. Do I agree with it? No, I just found the challenge stimulating and the ensuing debate enjoyable.

What he said
It's also not something I do exclusively online. I do it in real life as well
I'll argue anything
"No"

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
arguing for the sake of arguing online, is that not the definition of an internet troll?

Isn't it more about intent? I mean, I've picked the least popular side of an argument just so that I challenge myself with arguing a case I don't personally agree with and promote healthy debate. Just the other day I was arguing with my college mates and teachers about why we should drop a nasty virus in the middle-east, and take over their oil. Do I agree with it? No, I just found the challenge stimulating and the ensuing debate enjoyable.

What he said
It's also not something I do exclusively online. I do it in real life as well
I'll argue anything

I suppose the difference is I take an opposing point when not my view when it's called, for example to help someone think an idea through rather than to challenge myself.

So on a subject like this, I agree with the general consensus to the point where I feel arguing against it serves more to inflame rather than help inform.
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Offline deathfun

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
I luckily don't have this issue
Being the idiot that is
"No"

 

Offline FireSpawn

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
What he said
It's also not something I do exclusively online. I do it in real life as well
I'll argue anything

No you wont.  :p


If you hit it and it bleeds, you can kill it. If you hit it and it doesn't bleed...You are obviously not hitting hard enough.

Greatest Pirate in all the Beach System.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

 

Offline deathfun

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
What he said
It's also not something I do exclusively online. I do it in real life as well
I'll argue anything

No you wont.  :p

Yes I will :p
"No"

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
There are a very few topics where I am not willing to compromise. Downplaying rape is one of them. Sorry.

It wasn't a matter of compromise. It was matter of going off into that whole silly digression about "if you get raped".

While certain trends in view are definitely strong after an event like that, you crystal-balling deathfun's response and saying "YOU'LL BE SORRY YOU EVER HAD THIS THREAD" is probably one of the least-helpful, least-intelligent, and least-interesting things in this thread. There's a good reason nobody else chimed in for that bit.

(It's because it was dumb and unless you yourself are a rape victim you had no business going there. Even if you are, you would hopefully be wiser than to go with the "hurr I scaer you hurr you'll be sory" methodology. No human being over the age of seven has ever been convinced by it. One might as well have a conversation with someone who goes to church and tell them "you're a sinner, you should stop".)

(sorry headdie)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 07:48:46 am by NGTM-1R »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
What I'm seeing from deathfun is typical behavior. This is a classic part of the cycle in pedophilia callouts (not that I think he's a pedophile, but it's a similar mechanism at work). The accused first argues against the terms of the accusation, then, once they realize that everybody believes they're an awful human being, falls back on what's termed the puppetmaster defense: i just did it to start arguments/troll/run an experiment. dance, puppets, dance
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 09:59:54 am by General Battuta »

 

Offline ShadowWolf_IH

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
I just read all 15 pages of this thread, and then did something different.  I ran a few errands before replying.  This gave me the time that I needed to digest everything that I had just read.

Those who know me know about my involvement in Special Olympics.  They know that my daughter is is mentally and physically retarded.  I didn't say "handicapped", I didn't say "has special needs", I used the word "retarded".   I despise that word.  I understand that it is my personal feeling and as such has no bearing on any fact about the evolution of the English language.  Why do I hate it?  Because it used to mean something.  Now it has been thrown around in so many ways that it has entirely lost its meaning, and has been replaced by other words used to convey the meaning.  I take absolute offense when that word is used lightly.  That word describes a child who had a stroke at birth, a child that has survived numerous brain surgeries, and a child that has been heart dead no less than 5 times on an operating table. 

Do I take offense when that word is used lightly?  You're damn right I do.  When you use that word lightly you make light of the plight of people who can't possibly fight back against you, mentally or physically.  As far as I have seen, and I will admit freely that my perception may be clouded by own feelings, people use that word to convey a sense of superiority.  It would be laughable if not so tragic to see someone with such a need to feel superior to something that they have to make a comparison to a person who doesn't have the mental faculties to tell time at age 14, let alone understand advanced concepts such as moral duty.

On the other hand, my dealing with these kids has shown me that they have more heart than 90% of the "normal" people that I have met, so really, who should be learning from who?

Rape.

Another disgusting word for pretty much the same reasons as "retard."  Until you've been through the multiple suicide attempts, the need to punish ones self for what was done to them, the pure self destruction.....you don't know ****.  Spend years with someone you care about and can't touch, not days or weeks, years.  Years spent waiting for some sign that they are becoming a rape survivor, and not a victim, only to have another suicide attempt.  Then tell me that you are unchanged.  You tell me then how it's ok to use that word lightly.  Nuke you know exactly what I am talking about and I applaud you for your candor on the matter.

I am going to keep my list very short here and just some personal highlights of the people in this thread:

Batts:  We've been sorting of butting heads a bit lately, and reading your posts I began losing some respect for you.  It was my fault for not reading the threads that you were referencing, a mistake I won't make again.  Thank you for showing me that I was right in my original assessment of you.

Trashman:  This may be unfair since you can't reply, but I ain't exactly feeling the love right now.  I cannot respect the work of someone that I cannot respect.  I know it won't bother you at all, but reading this, I have found myself at an utter and complete loss of respect for you, and as such, I now have to change a good number of the models that I use in CoW.  I know it seems trivial, but I refuse to use your work, let alone showcase it as the main models, and I hope to hell no one else uses them.  A fitting end for you at HLP would be that none of your work gets used.

deathfun:  I don't know you.  That said, taking a contrary stance simply to take a contrary stance is immature at best, more commonly asinine.  Don't bother replying, you are already on ignore. 

Finally, a thread on this board that was (for the most part) worth following.  Thank you to all who contributed to the thread itself, and not yourselves.
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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
I think criminal offenses should not be made taboo since that hinders society's defend against them. Banning the casual, figurative use of a word just because it makes some feel uneasy is uncalled for since it leads to making the whole topic a taboo. People who are assaulted are often so overtaken by fear that they become paralyzed and incapable of defending themselves. This fear is caused by society's irrational stance on the issue.

A story recently made the news in my country. It was about a young elementary schoolgirl who successfully incapacitated a pedophile who attacked her classmate. She delivered a powerful kick to the groin because thats what her parents taught her to do in that situation. Not only did she save her friend but the culprit was also apprehended by the female staff of the school.

For me this example shows how the issue of rape should be treated, seriously but without the overlying fear and paranoia. A healthy stance to the subject made the girl's parents teach her how to defend herself and helped her keep her resolve when the moment came. The result was one less traumatized victim and one less offender free from jail.

I realize this thread started on the topic of using the word in nerdy banter. I agree with the statement that such dirty-talk and low humor should not be shown to the outside as a staple of our community.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
I think criminal offenses should not be made taboo since that hinders society's defend against them. Banning the casual, figurative use of a word just because it makes some feel uneasy is uncalled for since it leads to making the whole topic a taboo.

Who suggested the word be banned?

Quote
I realize this thread started on the topic of using the word in nerdy banter. I agree with the statement that such dirty-talk and low humor should not be shown to the outside as a staple of our community.

Right, I can get behind that.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Rape, and why it's not a good topic
I think criminal offenses should not be made taboo since that hinders society's defend against them. Banning the casual, figurative use of a word just because it makes some feel uneasy is uncalled for since it leads to making the whole topic a taboo.

This isn't about banning anything. This is about raising awareness that what you may see as normal, day-to-day language may have connotations that you haven't thought of (especially when said language is filtered through the great decontextualization machine that is the internet), thus coloring other people's perceptions of you in ways you may not want.
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