[deathfun]

Solution to your stealth problems
Open up your ship to space. Heat problems are gone and so long as you've got a nice oxygen supply and a suit, you're good to go. No insulation required

On a different note: You bring your entire ship out of phase. Take a look at Stargate SG-1. You can't detect what is on a different wavelength/dimension altogether

[Alex Heartnet]

On a different note: You bring your entire ship out of phase. Take a look at Stargate SG-1. You can't detect what is on a different wavelength/dimension altogether

Because you would create a new tactic without creating a counter to it?  If you have a technological advantage over your enemies, by all means exploit it, but societies on par or above your technological level probably have extra-dimensional sensors or somesuch.

[An4ximandros]

1 - Invent subspace (whateveretsis)

2 - Make close range attacks at enemy using jumps (They will never see that coming)

3 - Watch as they adapt by making their ships short range and develop subspace.

4 - End up needing to develop a new strategy.

[deathfun]

On a different note: You bring your entire ship out of phase. Take a look at Stargate SG-1. You can't detect what is on a different wavelength/dimension altogether

Because you would create a new tactic without creating a counter to it?  If you have a technological advantage over your enemies, by all means exploit it, but societies on par or above your technological level probably have extra-dimensional sensors or somesuch.

Take a look at Stargate SG-1. Despite all the technology and knowledge given to the Ori Priests, they couldn't use any of the stuff the Ori (Ascended beings). Not only that, but any matter that exists in the other dimension, cannot affect the other, and vice versa. (Not only that, but not even the Ancients [other ascended beings] could see Merlin [who is one of them] when he used the device that he created to accomplish the out of phaseness)

That would be the downside to it. Stealth goes through the roof, but being able to use said stealth would involve coming back into the visible wavelength of your enemies

[NeonShivan]

Somehow I just noticed that I never shared my personal choice. Energy weapons is mine for some very good reasons:

-While they aren't the best choice in terms of economics a combination of laser and plasma weaponry would be very useful. For instance, when faced against an enemy on a technological level equal to that with the GTVA: the use of magnetics  for a defensive purpose is lacking making it easy to burn through the hulls of GTVA ships with plasma cannons or beams. While lasers could virtually be used at any range if you have the significant power to generate the laser and the ability to magnify the laser X amount of times to reach the significant distance required. Overall, your opened to more strategic options with energy weapons then you are with Kinetic Weapons where its basically point and shoot.

[Alex Heartnet]

Take a look at Stargate SG-1. Despite all the technology and knowledge given to the Ori Priests, they couldn't use any of the stuff the Ori (Ascended beings)....

Mind re-wording that?  Seems like you were saying something significant but you failed to finish your sentence.    If you had realized your mistake you would of edited it by now 

That would be the downside to it. Stealth goes through the roof, but being able to use said stealth would involve coming back into the visible wavelength of your enemies

Again, why would you not develop a counter to your new capability?  If there's isn't any one piece of technology that solves the problem, then what counter-tactics could you perform?

[Mongoose]

I don't remember the exact explanation now, but there's a clever abuse of thermodynamics laws that allow you to transfer any amount of heat from a colder place to a hotter one (and it works, surprisingly enough).

Um...

[Alex Heartnet]

Can I ask why we need to still be fighting one another if we have the resources to colonize space?

Weapons are just going to get more and more destructive.  On the flip side, new technologies will make basic necessities far more plentiful, greatly reducing conflict over resources.

If we reach the point where we have nanotech factories on street corners creating free food and clothes from garbage, what justification for conflict could there be besides someone wanting power and control at the expense of others (and circumstances related to this)?

[jr2]

what justification for conflict could there be...?

Oh!  I got this one!

...someone wanting power and control at the expense of others (and circumstances related to this)

[Klaustrophobia]

the parameters of this discussion are changing with nearly every post.

[z64555]

the parameters of this discussion are changing with nearly every post.

Nope. Thread's been hijacked from "Kinetic vs. Energy Weapons" into "Stealth in Space" and some sort of debate as to how thermodynamics should be applied.

For some reason I think most of the debaters have completely ignored my wall of text about 3 pages back. 

[The E]

The thread was doomed from the get-go. "If you had to choose between <magic> and <magic>, which type of <magic> do you prefer?" isn't a good starting point.

[Jeff Vader]

the parameters of this discussion are changing with nearly every post.

[z64555]

The thread was doomed from the get-go. "If you had to choose between <magic> and <magic>, which type of <magic> do you prefer?" isn't a good starting point.

Well in that case, I pick the one that looks the pretiest when it's making fantastic destruction.

[deathfun]

Take a look at Stargate SG-1. Despite all the technology and knowledge given to the Ori Priests, they couldn't use any of the stuff the Ori (Ascended beings)....

Mind re-wording that?  Seems like you were saying something significant but you failed to finish your sentence.    If you had realized your mistake you would of edited it by now 

That would be the downside to it. Stealth goes through the roof, but being able to use said stealth would involve coming back into the visible wavelength of your enemies

Again, why would you not develop a counter to your new capability?  If there's isn't any one piece of technology that solves the problem, then what counter-tactics could you perform?

"Gave them to counteract this technology". That's the ending to that sentence

I'm taking an idea from a television show and applying it's lore to the conversation. How can I develop a counter to something that I didn't create?
EDIT: Think of it this way. The humans utilizing the technology didn't create it, but discovered it and put it to use.
http://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Merlin%27s_computer

However, there is the Sudan cloaking device which acts similarly to the computer. It's cloaking field takes the user out of phase, and thus can interact with whoever is in the computer affected range. Problem being, it's for personal use and harmful to humans

[S-99]

Traditional kinetic weaponry rely on the usage of a chemical propellant to accelerate and transfer energy to a bullet or slug, which then transfer what energy it has to the target (or otherwise punch right through it). Therefore, traditional kinetic weapons "consume" mass from the propellant, the slug, and for rapid fire weaponry, the shell. The shell or case is used to conveniently hold the propellant and bullet together, as well as serve as a heat sink for any wasted energy from the propellant's discharge.

Railguns and coilguns use electromagnetic force to propel bullets or slugs, thereby reducing the amount of mass consumed to just the bullet. However, depending on the technology used to generate and store the electrical energy, the net amount of mass of these weapons may be greater than the traditional counterparts.

Armor against traditional kinetic weaponry (including railguns and coilguns) seeks to either absorb all of the kinetic energy of the slug without penetration, or to divert/reflect the slug away. Even if there was a hypothetical armor that could absorb all of the kinetic energy of any slug that hits is, sustained fire at a single point in the armor will eventually heat it up, perhaps even to a melting/softening point at which the armor will fail.

Energy weapons, namely lasers, beams, and electromagnetic wave weaponry (such as a Microwave gun or a X-ray gun) seek to destroy material by raising its internal temperature or otherwise alter the molecular bonds so that the material's molecules will unravel themselves.

EMW weaponry (including lasers) all travel at the speed of light, so their precision is phenomenal and is not affected by gravitational forces for sub-AU distances (like all types of kinetic energy weapons are).

Beam weaponry (including lightning-type weaponry) for the most part behave exactly the same as kinetic energy weaponry, but have the capability of being a continuous stream. Additionally, beam weaponry can have the same effect as laser and X-ray weaponry on the temperature and molecular stability of material.

Just like traditional kinetic weaponry, Beam weaponry requires the "consumption" of mass in order to create the bolts. Lightning-type weaponry require a conduit of some sort in order to transfer the electricity from weapon to target, and this conduit is usually a stream of conductive particles (a.k.a. a beam). Lastly, as with the Laser and EMW weaponry, depending on the technology level of power creation and storage, Beam weaponry can have much more mass than laser and traditional kinetic weaponry combined.

However, if the consumed mass of Beam weaponry is fissile, like radioactive materials such as plutonium and uranium, then the energy requirements of beam weaponry would be mitigated to only the amount of energy needed to start the chemical reaction of the beam material. Read: controlled nuclear blasts in the form of a beam.

TL;DR:
Chemically Propelled Kinetic:
Pro's: Low tech requirements; Light-weight guns; Resistant to atmospherics
Con's: Ammunition limited to amount of materials for bullets, shells, and propellant; Fired munitions go on forever, potentially hazardous for non-combatants; Fired munitions are affected by gravity; Consumes mass

Magnetically Propelled Kinetic:
Pro's: Higher precision and range than Chem propelled; Resistant to atmospherics
Con's: High tech/energy demands; Fired munitions go on forever; Munitions affected by gravity; Consumes mass

Electromagnetic Wave Weaponry:
Pro's: Highest precision; Highest speed; Continuous operation; Unaffected by gravity; Can be "harmless" after a specific range out of focus; Doesn't consume mass
Con's: Potentially slow in transferring necessary energy to destroy target; High tech/energy demands; Vulnerable to atmospherics/ablative armor

Particle/Beam Weaponry:
Pro's: Good precision; Semi-continuous operation; Fast in melting or otherwise destabilizing material on contact; Munitions can destabilize after a specific range
Con's: High tech/energy demands; Speed limited to type of particle used; Munitions affected by gravity; Vulnerable to atmospherics/ablative armor; Consumes mass

Disclaimer: I disclaim any and all information here from being 100% accurate, partially because energy weaponry is not widely known in their operation.

It's a start, but what could energy weapons be used for other than what solid projectiles offer? If you're going to use energy weapons for the equivalent as solid projectile weapons, then what's the point?

There's still too much balance on something that is otherwise, i don't see should be balanced. I rephrase the question. What can energy weapons be used for other than point and shoot (and of course still be used as a weapon) compared to their solid projectile brother?

A weapon that can accomplish most if not all tasks from one fuel/source (imagining gas being used for plasma weapons that accomplishes everything from nuking cities to a hand held blaster) is what is desired.

And no, i don't have many ideas of what energy weapons could still be used for other than just point and shoot and still be a weapon (i've got like two ideas, but both would require some serious advancement in energy weapons to work). It's hard to think of; point and shoot is pretty effective in standard warfare.

[Scotty]

Aaaaaaand now we're back to square one of the topic.  I must say I'm impressed by this thread for its ability to brutally rip itself away from thread drift and back to the main topic.

Tried making another Darth Vader reference with "The circle is now complete" but couldn't figure out how to make it fit.

[headdie]

@S-99

I think the main thing with EM weaponry like lasers is the greater accuracy and reduced reaction time for your enemy.  The advantage projectile based weapons is 1) the greater flexibility in how you deliver the damage 2) improved range in gas/dust clouds 3) using gravity to bend your shot around say a planet is presumably easier, though gravity can work against you in that it take a lot more energy to fire out of a gravity well.

[z64555]

It's a start, but what could energy weapons be used for other than what solid projectiles offer? If you're going to use energy weapons for the equivalent as solid projectile weapons, then what's the point?

There's still too much balance on something that is otherwise, i don't see should be balanced. I rephrase the question. What can energy weapons be used for other than point and shoot (and of course still be used as a weapon) compared to their solid projectile brother?

Here:

Energy weapons, namely lasers, beams, and electromagnetic wave weaponry (such as a Microwave gun or a X-ray gun) seek to destroy material by raising its internal temperature or otherwise alter the molecular bonds so that the material's molecules will unravel themselves.

EMW weaponry (including lasers) all travel at the speed of light, so their precision is phenomenal and is not affected by gravitational forces for sub-AU distances (like all types of kinetic energy weapons are).

Beam weaponry (including lightning-type weaponry) for the most part behave exactly the same as kinetic energy weaponry, but have the capability of being a continuous stream. Additionally, beam weaponry can have the same effect as laser and X-ray weaponry on the temperature and molecular stability of material.

Note that energy weapons may also be area effect weaponry, such as traditional bombs. However, these types of energy weapons have far higher energy demands (equivalent to the cubed amount of energy needed for directional weaponry, I think) as well have curious methods of detonation (self-destabilizing plasma grenade, anyone?)

A weapon that can accomplish most if not all tasks from one fuel/source (imagining gas being used for plasma weapons that accomplishes everything from nuking cities to a hand held blaster) is what is desired.

Ironically, that's pretty much how gunpowder works. Granted there's a whole slew of differences in the chemical compisitions of the different types of gunpowder, you could have an entire arsenal that uses gunpowder as its primary propellant. However, the main disadvantage to using only one fuel source for al[l/i] your weaponry is that you make the propellant/energy source production plants a fat target. Diversification guarantees that, even if one source of propellant/energy is denied, you still have a large number of other weaponry that doesn't use it.

As an aside, Beam and EM (rail- and coilgun) weaponry could be the next shotgun, whereas a number of different types of ammunition will give unique effects and tactical advantages/disadvantages. (EMW weaponry can't do that)

And no, i don't have many ideas of what energy weapons could still be used for other than just point and shoot and still be a weapon (i've got like two ideas, but both would require some serious advancement in energy weapons to work). It's hard to think of; point and shoot is pretty effective in standard warfare.

Point-and-shoot almost guarantees that the stuff your firing doesn't hit any friendlies or otherwise would-be neutrals. Area-of-effect weaponry destroy's anything within its killzone, so surgical strikes with AoE weaponry is impossible and has a high probability of collateral.

[Alex Heartnet]

One major problem with guns in space, especially sidearms.  The extreme temperature ranges will cause the barrel of the weapon to expand and contract.  This will probably affect energy rifles in addition to assault rifles.

Now, I am sure that there are ways around this problem, but I suspect that shotguns are going to be popular among spacers, at least until technology catches up.  (And yes, gunpowder will work in space.  Gunpowder contains oxygen, and ammunition made to work in space will use a special gunpowder blend that includes extra oxygen)