[est1895]

Mediators are calling it a serious problem in Germany.  Will there be a fourth Reich?

[The E]

No.

Also, you have exactly one post to give some sources for your ****ing bull****. As an actual German living in actual Germany, I am highly doubtful of your premise here. Failure to provide sources will result in extended mockery.

[NGTM-1R]

Mediators are calling it a serious problem in Germany.  Will there be a fourth Reich?

Hey can we get a citation or a link or some reasoning or anything that makes a good OP?

Thanks in advance.

[jr2]

https://www.google.com/search?q=neo+nazi+germany&sugexp=chrome,mod=5&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=neo+nazi+germany&hl=en&prmd=imvnsu&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ei=tY8qUKaVDerw0gHl3YDIBw&ved=0CFcQ_AUoBA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=2f6e4ee0255d6a70&biw=1280&bih=699

[The E]

Noooooo, don't do his work for him.

Besides, I can claim with the same level of veracity that the US is headed toward being a hard-line objectivist christian theocracy.

[Polpolion]

Noooooo, don't do his work for him.

Besides, I can claim with the same level of veracity that the US is headed toward being a hard-line objectivist christian theocracy.

To be fair, I would agree and call groups like WBC a problem. Nothing really substantial beyond that of any shock-group, but still a problem. I don't know all that much about neo-nazism in Germany, though. Also I think it's interesting that the brunt of est1895's posts are about Germany yet all of them are either questions that could be answered in a simple google search or completely unsubstantiated claims. (or both, I guess)

[Sarafan]

No.

Also, you have exactly one post to give some sources for your ****ing bull****. As an actual German living in actual Germany, I am highly doubtful of your premise here. Failure to provide sources will result in extended mockery.

Hey, c'mon, Call of duty needs that world war 3.

[The E]

The facts are this:

1. Ever since the ****ing world war, we've had some neo-nazi idiots running around.
2. Ever since the wall came down, we've had a problem with the disenfranchised youth in East Germany, due to East Germany being an economic backwater when compared to West Germany. This has been slowly changing, but we're now 23 years into being a reunited state, and the damage done by the rushed reunification process is still there.
3. Unlike West Germany, the East never really tried to educate young people on the horrors of Nazi Germany. As per the communist playbook, they declared nazism dead ex officio and left it there.
4. Disenfranchised youth + lack of economic opportunities (jobs, for example) = anger. Here expressed by forming hate groups.
5. Last year, one of the most mysterious crime series in german history was solved. To everyone's surprise, it was perpetrated by a trio of right-wing terrorists who were claiming to be the front of some nazi-themed underground organisation.
6. This sorry state of affairs was only possible due to very high-level idiocy at the Verfassungsschutz (Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, a domestic intelligence agency tasked with intelligence-gathering on threats concerning the democratic order, the existence and security of the federation or one of its states, and the peaceful coexistence of peoples), who at several points would have been able to solve this thing.
7. As a result, the news media have been taking a closer look at neo-nazi activities, thus creating the illusion of there being a rise in said activities.


Germany now is as likely to become the "fourth Reich" as it was immediately following WW2. Even less so, given that there are no internal pressure groups trying to steer us that way. Unlike the US, Germany's political discourse tends towards reaching a consensus between the big political factions; the amount of mud-slinging we get around here is pretty low-key compared to what we see when looking at the US.

Hey, c'mon, Call of duty needs that world war 3.

I thought that the middle east was booked as the opposition there?

[Sarafan]

I thought that the middle east was booked as the opposition there?

You see, that was only the inital step into making the ultimate COD villain, a russian neo-nazi ex-black ops mercenary of middle eastern descent, the only piece left now is the neo nazi part.

[headdie]

I thought that the middle east was booked as the opposition there?

You see, that was only the inital step into making the ultimate COD villain, a russian neo-nazi ex-black ops mercenary of middle eastern descent, the only piece left now is the neo nazi part.

Price has been skirting Ultimate CoD badguy territory for long enough, lest face it he fire a nuke off his own back, how badguy do you want to get?

[BloodEagle]

I thought that the middle east was booked as the opposition there?

You see, that was only the inital step into making the ultimate COD villain, a russian neo-nazi ex-black ops mercenary of middle eastern descent, the only piece left now is the neo nazi part.

Isn't that the villain from Soldier of Fortune?

[FireSpawn]

I do remember seeing a BBC newscast on this issue a few weeks back. It focused on things like whole blocks in some city of another being filled completely with white supremacists, and the same thing happening to some backwater town. But tbh, I don't find it that alarming. Troubling that there are still people who find being a Nazi appealing, but not alarmed. The 'BNP' and 'National Front' are more likely to become a major problem in my opinion, as let's face it, if any of them did get big and become a potential risk everyone would put their **** to one side to curb stomp the **** out of them. Again....And again...And one last time for luck GREAT JUSTICE.

[Unknown Target]

Germany now is as likely to become the "fourth Reich" as it was immediately following WW2. Even less so, given that there are no internal pressure groups trying to steer us that way. Unlike the US, Germany's political discourse tends towards reaching a consensus between the big political factions; the amount of mud-slinging we get around here is pretty low-key compared to what we see when looking at the US.

Why all the random US mudslinging? You're the only one who has mentioned the country in the thread so far.

[Polpolion]

Why all the random US mudslinging? You're the only one who has mentioned the country in the thread so far.

It's probably true. I honestly don't pay any (nonzero) amount of attention at all to German politics so I'll just take The E's word for it but you've got to have your head buried pretty deep in the sand to not see mudslinging in US politics at the federal level. Mostly it centers against whoever is the president, but there's still a decent amount against congress, though that may just because of the comparatively small pool of constituents.

[Mika]

Well, my take on Germany is that currently there isn't that much that sort of activity. But with the EU wide economic downturn, there will be higher tensions. I don't know how that will affect the political discourse, but I'm pretty sure that there will be some radicalization happening inevitably if things turn out for the worse. Getting a facist regime back in power in Germany would require something like a massive recession, unemployment and hyperinflation. If it goes to right wing activity, I would be more worried about Hungary at the moment - but the truth is, I haven't been there myself to say for sure. Greece and Spain are also going to face some amount of radicalization no matter what now.

But currently in Germany, NO. The thing with German radical opinions is that they are hidden, nobody is going to say anything that sort in public, but at home it might be different. It is still another thing whether the said person actually means it or if it is just his way to went his frustration on something.

This is coming from a person who has been traveling enough to Germany (work trips) during last five years.

[Dragon]

Exactly. Neo-Nazizm, and extremism in general, is on the rise everywhere. Maybe Neo-Nazis get more publicity in Germany because they're controversial and certain to attract a lot of attention. Media always look for shocking and controversial things to make fuss about, as I mentioned some time ago in another thread. While in Greece or Hungary Neo-Nazis might be a real problem, in Germany they're only as problematic as WBC in US. Bunch of jerks and loons whom nobody reasonable listens to and who insult a lot of different people, making themselves seem much more important to media by jelling controversial things really, really loud.

[Mikes]

Well, my take on Germany is that currently there isn't that much that sort of activity. But with the EU wide economic downturn, there will be higher tensions. I don't know how that will affect the political discourse, but I'm pretty sure that there will be some radicalization happening inevitably if things turn out for the worse. Getting a facist regime back in power in Germany would require something like a massive recession, unemployment and hyperinflation. If it goes to right wing activity, I would be more worried about Hungary at the moment - but the truth is, I haven't been there myself to say for sure. Greece and Spain are also going to face some amount of radicalization no matter what now.

But currently in Germany, NO. The thing with German radical opinions is that they are hidden, nobody is going to say anything that sort in public, but at home it might be different. It is still another thing whether the said person actually means it or if it is just his way to went his frustration on something.

This is coming from a person who has been traveling enough to Germany (work trips) during last five years.

Actually it's "NO Period".

What kinda reasoning is this "hidden" crap? "They" (TM) aren't saying it in public so "they" (TM) must be saying it in private because you just know "they" (TM) do?

Lemme call bull**** right there.

This is coming from a person actually living there for the last 30 years. Fact is that nowadays you will propably have a hard time finding a country where Neo Nazism is LESS of a problem than in Germany.

Simply because most Germans are aware of history.




In general: Calling a German a Nazi nowadays is pretty much on the same level as calling random Americans "genicidal Indian slaughterers".

I.e.: At best... you are professing your own ignorance/idiocy.

[FireSpawn]

Talking of ignorance, one of my friend's family was celebrating Diwali last year and got the word "Scum" carved into their car. Apparently people still aren't being educated to the fact that the swastika was (and still is) a symbol of peace well before Hitler got his Darth Vader battling mitts on it.
Almost completely unrelated, but this topic just brought it to mind. Also we're in GD, I'm pretty sure that it's written in the Geneva Convention that topics have to be derailed at some point here.

[Mika]

Actually it's "NO Period".

What kinda reasoning is this "hidden" crap? "They" (TM) aren't saying it in public so "they" (TM) must be saying it in private because you just know "they" (TM) do?

Lemme call bull**** right there.

This is coming from a person actually living there for the last 30 years. Fact is that nowadays you will propably have a hard time finding a country where Neo Nazism is LESS of a problem than in Germany.

Simply because most Germans are aware of history.

I base my opinion on some Germans that moved here, and my brother living in Germany. Sometimes people from outside see things differently. So talk about immigrants like Turkish or Persian is definitely not said in public, but at home. Persians and Turkish then comment about the racistic attitudes of the general population against them - which occasionally takes hilarious shapes. I.e. a Turkish person owning a car shop cannot actually be seen in the shop, and has to hire German salesmen as customers would not otherwise buy. A bald Finnish lumberjack went to buy food from Turkish fast food restaurant, and that restaurant paid HIM money - they mistook him for Neo-Nazis that had been pestering the shop. And I'm still to spot a gypsy in German cities. What it comes to violence and wanton destruction of property, you have your share of football hooligans there.

All this is just saying that the seeds of racism and facism lie in everybody, no education will change it. Those seeds have not disappeared anywhere, and will not at any point soon. They will manifest themselves even in the Germans despite the much touted history - I suspect that this could change frighteningly quickly despite all the knowledge of the people. What it just needs is some outside pressure and disturbance from the norm. Understanding that there has been evolutionary advantages to racism is the key of understanding its occurence - this is the depth of the problem. Also know that Germany too is heading for economical trouble, which WILL radicalize people and provide the grounds for the above. For some reason I also think that since a lot of Germans are saying they have learned from WWII history, I already suspect this is already similar to the herd-thinking that happened before WWII. It is hard for me to believe that humans would learn from the history - my personal opinion is that this sort of learning happens only from what they have experienced personally.

I actually expect a swing towards extreme right and left (mostly towards right for certain reasons) in the political climate throughout the Europe, but let's see how that pans out.

[Thaeris]

What I really want to know... is why est1895 seems to have this obsession with Nazism, yet is strangely incapable of doing any research on his own...

Note for the Dekkerling: the National Socialist Party swastika goes the wrong direction - ironically, their motives also quite contradictory to peace as well.

Lastly, about radicals - they only make significant headway in politics in dire situations and when information can be controlled to their advantage. I don't think you're going to see the level of extremism in the western world as seen in the 1930's and '40 any time soon.