[Patriot]

Sounds a bit like something from EVE there Ted xD

Id join an HLP squad in a heartbeat

[Rodo]

*rodo browsing the RSI site

hey what's this?



*clicks on link "fs2 player".

mmm... seems some kind of custom search between the registered users, sadly I'm the only one appearing in that search... what is this sorcery??? no FS fans on this damned site?

*changes search to FS2



Now that's sad... only 5 members, from which only 4 are really related to FS2.

what the hell HLP? what the hell! no more love for FS2?

[edit: ahh I feel better, freespace yields more results ]

[TrashMan]

I think most of us don't put FS player in the Bio.... try searching for modder and oyu might find me

[MatthTheGeek]

My bio is "derp.". Because can't be arsed.

[An4ximandros]

 New video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrQ0qMRZ_1Q

 That engine is amazing.

[General Battuta]

God, I wish there were even one slightly compelling thing about this game's creative design. I can't complain about the publicity it's drawing or (probably) its gameplay and systems, but I don't think Roberts has ever made a product that said anything interesting or challenging about...anything. Someone offer me some hope here

[Dragon]

Not every story has to tell something completely new. Old stories told in a new way, or sometimes just old stories told well, can also be a great experience. Yes, we probably seen it all by the time WCP rolled about. And we want to see it again. Star Citizen is something of a callback to space games of old, and as such, I don't think it needs anything "new".

[General Battuta]

There were space games of old that weren't utterly vapid in their story and art design.

[JGZinv]

Oh I dunno, a current gen engine with mod support from day one, custom community servers, leadership with an established track record of making quality titles,
a 200K strong playerbase, Devs paying attention to the community....

Need I go on?

[General Battuta]

Those things are all fantastic, but also explicitly separate from what I'm talking about.

[The E]

Not every story has to tell something completely new. Old stories told in a new way, or sometimes just old stories told well, can also be a great experience. Yes, we probably seen it all by the time WCP rolled about. And we want to see it again. Star Citizen is something of a callback to space games of old, and as such, I don't think it needs anything "new".

Dear Dragon, games with a story that only works on the very superficial level do not have any kind of staying power. We do not remember Wing Commander for its great characterization, or the way it discussed war and the people in it, we remember it for its gameplay and production values.

Now, for most games, this is enough.

But.

Games can, and should be so much more. I'm not saying that every game needs to be a Spec Ops: The Line style deconstruction of tropes and stories, but there should be at least something more substantial there, some sort of actual exploration of what it would mean to be a human in the world they've built in the game.
FreeSpace 2 is a wonderful example of a very simple narrative that holds up to very intense scrutiny that actually works on more levels than just "glue to string together gameplay".

Star Citizen is a very ambitious project from a technical and business standpoint, but it's playing it very safe (one might even call it boring) in terms of what we've seen from the story, and that is ****ing disappointing, especially given the things we know gaming is capable of.

[An4ximandros]

 I guess you could look at it from an industry standpoint: This game is Space Sims made modern. With tons of brown and desaturated colour.

 I see the game as more of a platform through which people can come up with mods that break the mold. Thus, why we need Battuta's wandering star to grace this hunk of resource.

[MatthTheGeek]

Someone offer me some hope here

Modding.

What do you expect from this game that we couldn't mod in ?

Star Citizen is a very ambitious project from a technical and business standpoint, but it's playing it very safe (one might even call it boring) in terms of what we've seen from the story, and that is ****ing disappointing, especially given the things we know gaming is capable of.

What is in this sentence that we can't mod in ?

[Dragon]

Dear Dragon, games with a story that only works on the very superficial level do not have any kind of staying power. We do not remember Wing Commander for its great characterization, or the way it discussed war and the people in it, we remember it for its gameplay and production values.

I disagree. I found characters in Wing Commander, especially in 3 and 4, to be very good. Sure, there wasn't much philosophy in there (though WC4 had a few moments), those were mostly WWII stories in space. But they were well told, with good characters and a very immersive environment. Even if the story itself wasn't too good, the presentation was great. FS2 might've had good story, but TBH, it didn't tell it that well, being nearly devoid of characters and nearly everything not related to actual missions. Cutscenes were extremely detached from the actual player "character" (contrast WC3, where in nearly every case, you only saw what your character did). Those little, background things do matter, they create an immerisve environment that makes it possible to enjoy even a medicore story. FS2 is pretty lifeless and hard to immerse in (notice, all the best mods added plenty of worldbuilding and background), unlike Wing Commander, for example.

Now, the greatest of the great, of course, have both a great world and a great story in it, but in a game like Star Citizen, the world is IMHO more important. It's an MMO, which will span a massive universe. The "main campaign" will not be the only story told, so the game should focus on developing a world people would enjoy being in, characters people would enjoy interacting with. Considering the immense scale of Star Citizen, I believe there will be a lot of stories told in this universe. Their quality may vary, but the game itself will have to stand on the world it's creating, not on any single story. Spec Ops: The Line was great, but I finished it and put it away (will probably replay someday, if I dare ). It didn't create a world (not that it had to, I'm not criticizing it here) and thus there aren't really more stories to be told there. Star Citizen can't afford that if it wants to "live" like Roberts wants it to.

[General Battuta]

Everything in FreeSpace 2, even the interface art style, is built to further the story. It's a game with incredible ludonarrative harmony. It is intentionally lifeless and purposefully impersonal, and that's why it succeeds so incredibly at its worldbuilding, why it comes to life and enables immersion in a way Wing Commander can't.

If Star Citizen offers a lot of EVE-style player interaction then fortunately the relative lack of narrative ambition won't matter!

[MatthTheGeek]

It's an MMO, which will span a massive universe. The "main campaign" will not be the only story told

Wrong.

The initial release of SC will actually be a 50-ish SP campaign with no other MP element than coop. The open-world part is expected 6 months after that and while it is probably what will keep the game alive for the years following the release, I doubt anyone who cares about the game thinks for a second that the SP is a minor aspect of the game.

[iVoid]

New video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrQ0qMRZ_1Q

 That engine is amazing.

*drools*

[Dragon]

It's an MMO, which will span a massive universe. The "main campaign" will not be the only story told

Wrong.

The initial release of SC will actually be a 50-ish SP campaign with no other MP element than coop. The open-world part is expected 6 months after that and while it is probably what will keep the game alive for the years following the release, I doubt anyone who cares about the game thinks for a second that the SP is a minor aspect of the game.

Nope, it's not "wrong" as you phrased it. In fact, you repeated what I said later in your post. What I said and you quoted is 100% correct. Note, I never said it'd be a minor aspect of the game, I merely said it'd not be the only one. Yes, it's important (nobody said it isn't), but it doesn't make up the entirety of the game. Granted, it will be the first part we'll get to experience, but there will be far more to Star Citizen than that.

Everything in FreeSpace 2, even the interface art style, is built to further the story. It's a game with incredible ludonarrative harmony. It is intentionally lifeless and purposefully impersonal, and that's why it succeeds so incredibly at its worldbuilding, why it comes to life and enables immersion in a way Wing Commander can't.

Actually, I find FS2's minimalism and utilitarism very immerision-breaking. The real world isn't designed to serve a single story, unlike FS2's world. By being devoid of everything else, the world created by FS2 seems simply incomplete. There's just too little said about it, too little of irrelevant info and background explanations. It does tell it's story rather efficiently, and opens itself up to mods filling in the missing background, but taken by itself, it's seriously lacking. It just doesn't feel right to exist in this kind of dull, lifeless, streamlined to a fault universe. In Wing Commander, you feel like you have real people around you, while in FS, you're clearly flying with AIs.

[Rodo]

You could feel better knowing the enemy race is based on the Vasudans.
Well, only the feet actually, but that's good enough right?

[General Battuta]

Actually, I find FS2's minimalism and utilitarism very immerision-breaking. The real world isn't designed to serve a single story, unlike FS2's world. By being devoid of everything else, the world created by FS2 seems simply incomplete. There's just too little said about it, too little of irrelevant info and background explanations. It does tell it's story rather efficiently, and opens itself up to mods filling in the missing background, but taken by itself, it's seriously lacking. It just doesn't feel right to exist in this kind of dull, lifeless, streamlined to a fault universe. In Wing Commander, you feel like you have real people around you, while in FS, you're clearly flying with AIs.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this point. Wing Commander has always seemed so transparent in its inspiration that it's impossible to believe in it as a fictional world. It reads like a pastiche, a slightly stuffy fan letter to everything that inspired it rather than a real place.