Author Topic: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2  (Read 2079 times)

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Offline An4ximandros

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Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
I recently had a nostalgia attack on Metal Gear and decided to play the second one, being old enough to understand the things going on in this game now... it blew my mind, specially the AI conversation at the end of the game: Part One Part Two

After surfing the net as my curiosity was peaked, I realized why the ending had always stuck with me, the more I grew up, the more I noticed the truth('s?) behind it, there are hundreds of deconstructions of Metal Gear Solid 2, specially after the whole Triple Act Scandal (ACTA, SOPA, PIPA.)

My whole point is this, what do you think about the arguments the AIs make? Are they right?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
This game literally owns. It's way smarter than it has any right to be.

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
MGS2 confused me as a young teenager and I played it many times trying to make sense of it. It gets alarmingly meta.

After the oil fence sniping segment, you can have an optional codec convo with Rose or something. Raiden talks about how dead inside he is, about how he can blow away all these guys and "watch them die in agony" and yet he feels nothing. And I thought to myself "man, I guess that would be pretty rough in real life, but I don't have any reason to feel bad because it's just a ga-........"


:eek:
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
I'm not sure I really want to deconstruct the big deconstruction, if only to avoid the obvious meme.
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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
Well to me the whole Patriots organization as well as the whole Philosopher's group that it originated from is very similar to the whole idea of the Illuminati shadow group controlling governments and corporations, in the way it's portrayed. It clicked really well for myself. Also the way MGS2 just obliterates the 4th wall in such a smart manner, and starts talking to YOU sitting there behind the TV, it certainly blew me away when i played it many years ago.

Then there's that nagging feeling a MGS1 player might have felt when going through the whole Big Shell. "All of this sure is like Shadow Moses.." which it turned out to be precisely with the S3 plan.

I'd say Hideo Kojima and his team are among the most talented and to me personally most respected game and story developers around, and as such certainly look forward to Ground Zeroes.
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- George Orwell

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
Ok I really enjoyed that conversation. Thanks for that!

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
MGS2 confused me as a young teenager and I played it many times trying to make sense of it. It gets alarmingly meta.

(...)Raiden talks about how dead inside he is, about how he can blow away all these guys and "watch them die in agony" and yet he feels nothing. (...)
You mean this conversation?

Some people took the time to record the Codec calls for our convenience, my thanks go out to them.

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
Yes, that's it exactly.
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
I never got very far into the first MGS, and I've always kind of snickered at the surface-level naming conventions and trappings and such of its story (which, granted, aren't really a function of Kojima alone, but Japanese pop culture overall), but I guess I should have figured there was much more substance to the series given how much it's talked about.  Maybe someday I'll be able to force myself through more of MGS and get a better grasp on it.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
I never got very far into the first MGS, and I've always kind of snickered at the surface-level naming conventions and trappings and such of its story (which, granted, aren't really a function of Kojima alone, but Japanese pop culture overall), but I guess I should have figured there was much more substance to the series given how much it's talked about.  Maybe someday I'll be able to force myself through more of MGS and get a better grasp on it.

Part of the joy of Metal Gear Solid is the enormous quantities of :what the christ: you will encounter. You'll get groped by the president and call your psychologist mid-battle to help deal with your nerves and some psychic asshole will read the saved games on your console and whenever the game reaches a point of high drama it's all LIQUIIIIIIIIIIIIIID!!!! BROTHAAAAAAAAAARRRR!!!! and Snake's all 'gotta repeat everything as a question. gotta do it'

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
Gotta repeat everything as a question?! Colonel, what the hell is going on here??
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
Nanomachines

 
Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
Since I only played MGS2 and had zero idea what was going on, is there some overarching plot to the MGS series besides "The Patriots are trying to take over the world with nanomachines"?
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
Yeah, all the fantastical elements in the MGS series always seemed to be there to enhance the story, not for autopsy by fans, Vamp for example, was supposed to be able to do ridiculous things ("He's running on water") in order to make you wonder what the hell was going on, not for you to explain why he was able to do it.

The La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo was supposed to be an "avatar" for the developers, since it's them who dictate the course of the fiction you are provided in the game, and the S3 plan Kernel was the game itself, which you experienced through Raiden, your avatar (who mentions doing a simulation of the Tanker incident to S- Pliskin only if you do the Tanker-Plant selection in the game), Then there's the conversation at the end of MGS1 that says that Foxdie should kill off the last Shadow Moses survivors soon... :nervous:

And the casting theater, MGS2 exclusive, which lets you swap character models in some cutscenes, likely implying that you could play the game as anyone selectable there and get the same experience.

Then MGS4 came around and ruined everything since the fans didn't really think like Kojima wanted them to (and those death threats sure did put pressure on him.)

 
Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
 :confused:
So, is there some grand, deep theme to the entirety of the series?  I only have a PC so you'll have to actually tell me the plot elements since I can't play the games.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
I don't really think you can explain anything as bat**** as MGS in a few sentences.

Check out this analysis written by a literal crazy person for some insight into MGS2

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
I'll try to keep this short:

-Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake carried a message about War being a terrible, and with OILIX, You essentially have infinite Oil to wage war with.
-Metal Gear Solid was, essentially, a 3D remake Of MG2: SS, carrying a stronger anti-war message, and how genes should not dictate your destiny.
-Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty carries a strong Anti-Meme message, that you should always question everything and not accept a truth because it's convenient, as there is no "absolute" truth.
-Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater was about adapting to the times, as Kojima had to do when the media bombed MGS2 for trying to be "too smart"
-Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of The Patriots is what happens when you ignore every single message Kojima was trying tell you and simply ask for more of the same generic **** we play nowadays (more combat less story plz.)

Edit: MGS-2 was meant to be the ending of the Metal Gear Saga as well. Questions left unanswered on purpose in order to make you think.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 01:06:34 pm by An4ximandros »

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
I watched MGS 3 gameplay as Valathil was streaming it.

All I can say is "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURY!"

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[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
I read somewhere that the Cobras were representations of the emotions Kojima had to go through while making MGS-3, i guess that could explain why they feel out of place in some ways.

 

Offline FireSpawn

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Re: Deconstructing Metal Gear Solid 2
In order to get a proper in-depth analysis of the series, you'll need the one tool that can cut through all the crazy that encases the story. You need....Scissors 69
If you hit it and it bleeds, you can kill it. If you hit it and it doesn't bleed...You are obviously not hitting hard enough.

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