Give a man a fishing rod and he'll die before he can ever catch anything, no doubt. :doh:
CP, my 'sympathy for Socialism' is based on equally long-term thinking. We'd have to change the mindset of people from materialistic to community-based before Communism or Socialism would take off correctly.
Where's your proof that stupid people reproduce faster, Bobb? By your own admission having lots of children in the poorest places is good sense, because it means more can work, and more can support you in old age. As long as they bring in more than they eat, each extra child is a benefit. Besides, poverty cannot be linked with stupidity. Such a view is...well, stupid.
1/when was the Nation of Palistine invaded?
2/who started the conflict wich led to the current occupation?
3/how do the nearby nations treat the refugees?
4/were do the palistinians place there military targets (meeting places, bomb factories, ect..)?
5/were do Isralies place there military targets (helicopters, tanks, barics)
6/what do the Palistinians target?
7/what do the Isralies target?
8/wich side was willing to give the other a huge chunk of land for peace?
9/how did the other side respond?
10/wich side calls for peace and arests terrorist grupes in there teritory?
11/wich side calls for a million Shahead in Jerusilum, and funds insane killers?
12/wich side has been kicked out of every contry they've ever been in?
13/wich side has made peace with every contry bordering them that were once hell bent on destroying them? [/b]
Most of these questions are irrelevant, some valid. Some actually condemn the viewpoint that you're trying to put across.
1. Some will say there's never been a 'nation of Palestine'. However, Palestine was once a British Protectorate covering Israel, the Occupied Territories and the Kingdom of Jordan. It was divided in 1948. Interestingly, here's something to refute the fact that the conflict is 'ancient'. The violence between Jews and Arabs in the area only began after the Balfour Decalration in 1917 - that the Palestinian Protectorate be turned into two states, Israel and Palestine. Before that Jewish refugees had been welcomed and treated fairly.
2. The conflict which led to the current Occupation was I believe one of the Arab-Israeli wars. First of all, as Israel was founded it came under attack from all sides by the other nations who didn't want it there. They were pushed back, and Israel occupied the land put aside for the creation of Palestine under the 1948 agreement. Those Palestinians who were forced out were not allowed the right of return to their farms because they had been absent during the war and Israel declared them state property. About 1/4 of farmers got a small payoff. The rest of the land was invaded in 1967 and represents something of a safety buffer zone for Israel proper. Too bad it's someone else's country, nor is it safe.
Basically the Palestinians themselves were caught in between the other powers. They certainly didn't start the war, and I'm not even going to go into who started the current intifada (as the chain of blame goes back a loooong way).
3. Nearby nations, I understand are hardly deeply compassionate towards Palestinian refugees, but I don't see how this matters. Just because some nations are cruel doesn't mean others should follow their lead. Besides, it only highlights the need for a homeland for these refugees all the more.
6. Palestinians target military personnel and notably civilians, as they regard them all as invaders (as I understand) and don't have the weapons to fight head-to-head with the IDF.
7. The Israelis target militants, or try to but end up killing a lot of civilians. It could be said that firing missiles into crowded civilian areas does not make the most sense if you're after a targeted assassination with no other casualties.
8. Both sides made concessions at Camp David and Oslo. The PA was willing to drop it's unreasonable demand that Israel should not exist, and Israel was willing to give
back the land it took in 1967. But only 60% of it, as stated previously. In addition, the state was crippled by not being in charge of its own electricity generation, water supplies and airspace, etc etc.
9. The other side said no, understandably. After all, if they said yes that would be all they
ever had, not a return to pre-1967 (and original 1948 agreement) borders.
10 + 11. I assume you're trying to say that Israel calls for peace and the PA calls for war. Bull. Sharon wants nothing but a war to utterly remove the Palestinians. The PA deplores the suicide attacks in public though there's some question about whether they do in private, and are losing political ground to Hamas anyway, who want to destroy Israel. It's not a case of good vs. bad as CP5670 says. Both sides are tainted.
12. I guess you want me to say the Jews. Again, untrue and unfair. I don't recall any purges in America, in Shanghai they were welcomed, and so on. I do realise there's a history of European persecution, though. However, what does this have to do with Israel/Palestine? The Palestinians were kicked out too. And besides, being kicked out of countries DOES NOT entitle you to kick others out in turn. It's not some kind of global kicking-wheel.
13. Israel has made peace with pretty much all the other countries for a number of reasons. First, it's so much better militarily that it could probably beat all the other regional powers and take their land if it so wished. Thus the Arabs have realised that Israel is there to stay. They've accepted it's existence; why can Israel not in turn acknowledge Palestine?
Phew. That was long.
