Author Topic: Bloody Corderas  (Read 14800 times)

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Offline An4ximandros

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Alright, after rereading this thread today, I admit to having been overly aggressive, I apologize for that.

What I meant with standard FS2 campaign is that it follows a linear structure (like FS2), I should have been clear on that.

 
Are you saying WoD's plot is bad because it doesn't branch? :wtf:
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline An4ximandros

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No, just that it's a lost opportunity. Though I do recognize Spoon did this all alone.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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I don't think anyone has ever released a fully branching FS2 campaign. (That stayed released, anyways.)
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Offline Droid803

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There was a fully branching campaign that got unreleased?
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Legate Damar

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Maybe he meant alternate endings, or SOC loops

 

Offline headdie

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No, just that it's a lost opportunity. Though I do recognize Spoon did this all alone.

thing is in FSO branching campaigns are a massive pita due to how the branching system that is in there works, you have to build a completely new mission for each major outcome and any outcome where there can be several minor outcomes might also need to be separately missioned.  campaign persistent variables can be used to alleviate this to some degree but there is a limit to how many variables a mission can use at a time and you run the risk of hitting the dreaded pilot file corruption on top of that. 

in short you quickly get a spaghetti campaign file that is difficult for it's devs to track and balance, with the likelihood that branches don't get tested properly and ultimately it could start breaking player's pilot files forcing a restart of the campaign.

The branching system in place was used for 2 purposes:
1: covert op's loops
2: the odd occasion where a mission needed to use an alternative of some sort (eg FS1:failure to communicate) and the branch merged back into the main campaign the following mission,
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Offline Dragon

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TBH, fully branching campaigns are a rarity. Wing Commander 1 had one, but the missions (and plot) were simple. There's going to be branching in BWO, and DE has an entire alternate chapter (more of an easter egg, actually, but it's there). Making a branching campaign is very difficult, and making a story that'd fit into such a campaign is even more challenging (a lot of branches = a lot of directions story may go in).

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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There was a fully branching campaign that got unreleased?

TopAce's...crap I can't remember the name, actually had two full branches. But he didn't like the reaction and pulled it.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Wouldn't it be possible to start on a campaign and have a mission that triggers an alternate ending that unlocks another one?

Sort of like:


                (Tutorial)
                       |
              First mission
             /                   \
(rest of missions    - Defect to side B, unlock campaign on B?
      on side A)

This might keep code sane enough?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Yeah, it's been done. It's a pretty simple trick, and I don't think a campaign needs it (or any branching at all) to be really good.

 

Offline Dragon

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TopAce's campaign and BWO work as that. So does DE, except the branches merge later on. That could be an interesting thought for WoD2, but I think WoD1 is just fine being lineal.
This works better in a more morally ambiguous universe though. Then, both sides may be show sympathetically and you can leave deciding what's right to the player. WoD is pretty black and white, Hertak isn't exactly the kind of enemy you'd like to collaborate with. You could have two branches on the same side, but you can also do multiple character approach, like WoD. This was a bit underexploited in there, but such storytelling method could be used to tell the same story from different, non-opposing POVs. This also has an advantage of allowing the player to play all the missions without restarting the campaign.

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Maybe the Kohr-Ah expy show up and you have to decide between oblivion and servitude?  ;7

 

Offline Dragon

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That'd be a bit dark for WoD. Though there's a sequel coming, so you never know...

 

Offline General Battuta

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Branching for the sake of branching does not make a campaign better. In fact, this entire notion of a list of boxes to check to qualify as a 'good campaign' annoys me. I am entirely certain you could make a sterling campaign using only retail assets and a completely linear structure.

 

Offline z64555

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The Cordi fighter sliding is enhanced frustration inducement, why the fork is it there?

Oui, what's your beef with having AI being able to dodge your shots? Not wanting to stop and learn new tactics and strategies?
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Offline An4ximandros

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I may have been having hope of finding an example of a branching campaign and WoD may have simply been an exhaust point for my built up frustration due to the things I dislike about it.

So I apologize to Spoon about that.

Also, perhaps it's time this thread be inhumed? Original purpose is done, other discussions started could be moved elsewhere.


z64555: Ey! I actually love enemies trying to evade my shots, that's one of the reasons I still play Unreal 1 today!

WoD's take on it just feels... floppy (for the lack of a better word) when I play.

*Edit: stupid grammar errors fixed. Derp.

 

Offline Dragon

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Cordi Soldiers are frustrating, I give you that. If you don't know how to deal with them, you'll end up swarmed. They're very good at evasion and they can shot at you when evading. They require a rather steady hand to kill.
Branching for the sake of branching does not make a campaign better. In fact, this entire notion of a list of boxes to check to qualify as a 'good campaign' annoys me. I am entirely certain you could make a sterling campaign using only retail assets and a completely linear structure.
You can. See Vassago's Dirge (and I'm pretty sure there are older examples). Only a few custom assets at the end, for an interesting twist. As I said, having branches works best when there's a major choice to make. If BP1 didn't end where it does, it'd be a good place to let the player decide who to side with at this point. It seems that BWO is going to do it like that. A black and white universe like WoD or FS just doesn't have any reason to force the player to make such a huge choice. Nobody says it couldn't be done, but I don't think it'd have the same impact. I think the way Tachyon did it is the best example of well handled branching.

 

Offline z64555

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Tachyon's "branching" was rather simplified... so simplified in fact that the war between the Bora and GalSpan is won by one simple action: the player choosing which side to fight for when the Bora were ordered to move out of the Hub. The campaigns might have been tied together better if the main plot-line behind them hadn't changed... preferably with the Bora winning since its riper for sequels.

Also, the fact that there was no possible way to defect to the either side after that mission closes a lot of potential arcs that would span across both sides. Jake was always a heralded as a contract pilot, never commissioned, which means he had the potential to work on both sides during the whole conflict... so long as he was careful to not let either GalSpan or the Bora know about the ordeal (Like showing up to a GalSpan mission in a Bora Warhammer. Not a good idea when your working with the commissioned pilots or flying freely through GalSpan's territories.)

In FreeSpace, you play the role as a pilot. Not an officer. You don't make the decisions on which mission to take, you do as your told or try to retire to the private sector. :v: might've been able to do like what was done in Rainbow Six, where you were able to change the mission plan right before entering it, or accept the default mission plan and get cracking.



z64555: Ey! I actually love enemies trying to evade my shots, that's one of the reasons I still play Unreal 1 today!

WoD's take on it just feels... floppy (for the lack of a better word) when I play.

It probably has to do with the way the AI reacts... I don't think they have any delay in their routines to emulate human behavior when it comes to things changing in real-time (which I think is like 100 ~ 500ms). Even in FS and FS2 I couldn't believe how smoothly the Shivans were responding to the direction of my fighter as I was right on their tails.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 08:29:59 am by z64555 »
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Offline General Battuta

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There's a simple way to take out Cordi.