[headdie]

* headdie braces for the impending car crash

[NGTM-1R]

Hey guys, you lost the war.

[Nuke]

i usually vote for the guy most likely to start a nuclear war. and im sure another civil war would go nuclear. so i got a massive boner right now.

[Aardwolf]

http://www.****thesouth.com/

[Nuke]

texas just got their 25000 signatures.

the fire will burn...

[Dragon]

Yup. Fueled by the bodies of 25000 republican fanatics, I presume. 

[Klaustrophobia]

http://www.****thesouth.com/

yep, that's pretty much why we want to leave.

[BrotherBryon]

Not going to happen, just some mad right wing nut cases saber rattling as usual. The only problem is that these idiots shout so loudly that they can't be ignored only dismissed.

[karajorma]

http://www.****thesouth.com/

yep, that's pretty much why we want to leave.

Cause someone called you out on being arrogant? Sounds to me that the guy is just making a rather sarcastic point about how sanctimonious the south are to the north and why they should stop. Seceding is just more of the same.



What I find hilarious is that I'd bet money that a significant number of those who signed were the same people who tried to cram "We must stand united behind the president during a time of war" bull**** down our throats when Bush was in charge.

[sigtau]

Fun fact: you can register as a minor (over the age of 13) on the petition site.  And still sign petitions. 

[Mongoose]

Best quote from an article about this:

Oddly, folks from Georgia have filed twice. Even stranger, several of the petitions come from states that went for President Barack Obama.

[Aardwolf]

So, first I was like... they are petitioning Obama? Why are they not petitioning their state governments, so they can actually do the thing?

Then I thought... oh, maybe they just want to force Obama to comment on it, and don't expect it to actually go anywhere.



@Klaustrophobia:  Are you from the South?

And seriously, Lincoln should've just let 'em secede. The Civil War was stupid.

[Bob-san]

So, first I was like... they are petitioning Obama? Why are they not petitioning their state governments, so they can actually do the thing?

Then I thought... oh, maybe they just want to force Obama to comment on it, and don't expect it to actually go anywhere.



@Klaustrophobia:  Are you from the South?

And seriously, Lincoln should've just let 'em secede. The Civil War was stupid.

If 20+ petitions pass the 25K mark, then Obama needs to make 20+ responses. Odds are, they'll all be the same canned response--but they'll be asking for essentially full comments (versus "Uh, no"--which confirms Obama is ready to use force against currently American citizens... or "Yeah, sure" which opens the option entirely).

Look, not saying it's good or bad, but there's 2 important things. The first is the right to self-determination. The USA wouldn't be a nation if not for seceding from Great Britain. The second is the fact that "xxx couldn't survive on its own" arguments are completely wrong. If you say these state can't survive peacefully on its own, then which states can? It could become the choice between 50 individual states going down together (with the USA on a whole) or 50 states going down alone (50 different times).

The latter outcome, at least, isn't particularly likely. If you want to say that the 50 states can't survive alone, you're right--no one state has sufficient financial, agricultural, industrial, or natural resources to survive alone. But, then again, neither does the nation as a whole. We're lacking industrial resources at the very least, and arguments could be made that we also lack financial, agricultural, and natural resources too.

I'm curious as to Obama's response regarding the Texas petition. That's one that that the citizens could well petition their state government to secede--regardless of the White House's response. (If the White House says no, they'll say they're tyrannical--and secede anyway. If the WH says yes, they'll secede because they apparently have the legal right to.) Of all states, Texas is probably the best prepared for those eventualities.

[Scotty]

(versus "Uh, no"--which confirms Obama is ready to use force against currently American citizens... or "Yeah, sure" which opens the option entirely).

Anyone who thinks it would require federal government intervention to keep this from happening (and, therefore, means what you say it means) really needs a reality check on the whole situation.

[General Battuta]

So, first I was like... they are petitioning Obama? Why are they not petitioning their state governments, so they can actually do the thing?

Then I thought... oh, maybe they just want to force Obama to comment on it, and don't expect it to actually go anywhere.



@Klaustrophobia:  Are you from the South?

And seriously, Lincoln should've just let 'em secede. The Civil War was stupid.

If 20+ petitions pass the 25K mark, then Obama needs to make 20+ responses. Odds are, they'll all be the same canned response--but they'll be asking for essentially full comments (versus "Uh, no"--which confirms Obama is ready to use force against currently American citizens... or "Yeah, sure" which opens the option entirely).

Look, not saying it's good or bad, but there's 2 important things. The first is the right to self-determination. The USA wouldn't be a nation if not for seceding from Great Britain. The second is the fact that "xxx couldn't survive on its own" arguments are completely wrong. If you say these state can't survive peacefully on its own, then which states can? It could become the choice between 50 individual states going down together (with the USA on a whole) or 50 states going down alone (50 different times).

The latter outcome, at least, isn't particularly likely. If you want to say that the 50 states can't survive alone, you're right--no one state has sufficient financial, agricultural, industrial, or natural resources to survive alone. But, then again, neither does the nation as a whole. We're lacking industrial resources at the very least, and arguments could be made that we also lack financial, agricultural, and natural resources too.

I'm curious as to Obama's response regarding the Texas petition. That's one that that the citizens could well petition their state government to secede--regardless of the White House's response. (If the White House says no, they'll say they're tyrannical--and secede anyway. If the WH says yes, they'll secede because they apparently have the legal right to.) Of all states, Texas is probably the best prepared for those eventualities.

Look at all these words about a petition with an insignificant number of angry people on it

[Aardwolf]

"xxx couldn't survive on its own" arguments are completely wrong. If you say these state can't survive peacefully on its own, then which states can?

Eh? I take it you are interpreting my "Lincoln should've just let 'em secede" remark as "they would've rotted and collapsed"? I was thinking it, but I didn't say it

But the South wasn't just a bunch of separate states. And if these states were to secede today, I doubt they would remain separate either.

That said, I don't know whether the CSA formed before or after the whole Fort Sumter debacle.



Edit: @Scotty: The fact that an actual secession is not going to go anywhere is irrelevant to what I believe Bob-san is saying. The actual petitions may be in the form of "we want to secede", but by asking Obama instead of their state governments, it's effectively forcing him to make a policy decision RE: "if our state government votes to secede, can we do it peacefully?" And Obama would have to be stupid to give an un-qualified "yes" or "no" answer, for reasons Bob-san has already addressed.

[Scotty]

That would be relevent, except you're missing one very, hugely, exceedingly, astronomically important fact: This isn't the state governments.  This is private citizens acting on their own, without any kind of state government support.

The federal government wouldn't have to do **** if these private citizens decided to try and secede anyway.  The state governments would take care of it much more quickly and easily.

[KyadCK]

http://www.****thesouth.com/

Oh, man, that whole link is funny, but

Arrogant? You wanna talk about us Northeasterners being ****ing arrogant? What's more American than arrogance? Hmmm? Maybe horsies? I don't think so. Arrogance is the ****ing cornerstone of what it means to be American.

Takes the cake.

I laughed the whole list through. Although losing Disney World would suck.

EDIT: I'm from Illinois, I'm allowed to laugh at the US, most of us know it's true anyway. 

[Bob-san]

(versus "Uh, no"--which confirms Obama is ready to use force against currently American citizens... or "Yeah, sure" which opens the option entirely).

Anyone who thinks it would require federal government intervention to keep this from happening (and, therefore, means what you say it means) really needs a reality check on the whole situation.

It'd probably be defeated by the citizens of each individual state, but then each state might have citizens petitioning independently of the others. That means that, while 49 states may have a referendum & decide NOT to secede, the 50th could instead secede. And success/failure of that state (and the federal response to it) will rally and change the opinions of both secessionists & federalists.

The reality is it won't happen on November 12, 2012. But, the time is coming where it COULD happen. Every political entity in history has had numbered days: the USA (and all others) will have to join that list one day or another. It may take decades or centuries but, one day, the USA will cease to exist.

That would be relevent, except you're missing one very, hugely, exceedingly, astronomically important fact: This isn't the state governments.  This is private citizens acting on their own, without any kind of state government support.

The federal government wouldn't have to do **** if these private citizens decided to try and secede anyway.  The state governments would take care of it much more quickly and easily.

There are already citizens who have convinced themselves that they've opted out of the federal system. Except, these "sovereign citizens" are now considered a domestic terrorist group regardless of their actual intentions or state philosophies. Guess what--things aren't all rosy, and the states that joined the USA either existed as independent entities before or as territories that opted to join.

"xxx couldn't survive on its own" arguments are completely wrong. If you say these state can't survive peacefully on its own, then which states can?

Eh? I take it you are interpreting my "Lincoln should've just let 'em secede" remark as "they would've rotted and collapsed"? I was thinking it, but I didn't say it

But the South wasn't just a bunch of separate states. And if these states were to secede today, I doubt they would remain separate either.

That said, I don't know whether the CSA formed before or after the whole Fort Sumter debacle.



Edit: @Scotty: The fact that an actual secession is not going to go anywhere is irrelevant to what I believe Bob-san is saying. The actual petitions may be in the form of "we want to secede", but by asking Obama instead of their state governments, it's effectively forcing him to make a policy decision RE: "if our state government votes to secede, can we do it peacefully?" And Obama would have to be stupid to give an un-qualified "yes" or "no" answer, for reasons Bob-san has already addressed.

They might rot & collapse, but I think that (if the US government fell apart tomorrow & 50 states were now individual countries) only some of those states will rot & die while others will find the correct balances to survive--perhaps founding new regional confederations and perhaps rebuilding the USA in a new image.

Yes, they're forcing a policy decision. Or at least trying to. The Texas petition is sufficient to rile some support for secession--this may become a game of chess for those secessionists and the Federal government. It's been nearly 150 years since the Civil War--and the secession question's bloody answer apparently needs revisiting.

The scary truth of it all is that the Federal government and the Presidency especially has acquired a LOT of new power in the past 50 years. Phony wars and partisan politics have resulted in Bush & Obama having a LOT of power. The scariest powers, in my book, are to spy on American citizens without warrants and to administer a "kill list" which, in the past, has targeted American citizens overseas. If for no other reason than those two issues, I'd say it's high time nullification occurs and the States resist the federal government.

[Nuke]

...and there goes louisiana...