[Thaeris]

FS has a rather bad stick code in my opinion - Hopefully, SDL implementation should rectify this problem. A few people have some suggestions for properly calibrating your stick to get around these issues, but I'm not very knowledgeable about that. Considering that I use a stick... that's bad on my part.

If you want a space sim with good stick code, you ought to try Starshatter, which you can now get for free (and is open-source), or you should try to find Tachyon: The Fringe. If you choose the latter, you ought to try talking to JGZinv.

Also, don't mind MatththeGeek if he drops in bashing joysticks, because he does that in every stick thread.

[SMill]

I definitely wanna try my stick on more arcadey games. I bought it for straight up sims, but I want a bit more variety

I'll look up both of those games. I don't know if I've heard of Starshatter, but I've heard a little bit about Tachyon. Thanks for the suggestions.

I suppose I should go back to the mouse and keyboard for FS2. It's a bit of a shame, really

[Klaustrophobia]

i overshoot all the damn time too.  although i never thought it was a problem with the stick/FS, just that i was just not great at using it.  which is weird, because i've never NOT used a joystick, and i distinctly remember being MUCH better years ago as a young lad of 12 on retail.  i had a cyborg 3d back then, and an x45 now.  the cyborg was really loose, had a bit of a deadzone problem, and i suspect it didn't have a full range of motion either.  maybe that's why.  or because it was so loose, i didn't muscle it so hard and overshoot.  playing for a while on the x45 physically tires my arms out, the cyborg never did that.

[z64555]

You might try performing something akin to a Scissors formation: Before going straight back to leading your target, continue the overshoot and drop your speed a few ticks for a few fractions of a second, then resume pursuing your target.

The downside to most joysticks is the fact that they sense position differences from the center instead of force, so there's a definite lag going from full stick on one side to the directly opposite. Joysticks that use force sensors are immune to this, but are also rare-ish.

[TwentyPercentCooler]

Honestly, OP, I never liked playing FS/FS2/FSO with a joystick. Jane's F-15? Yes. Falcon 4.0? Yes. Now, DCS A10? Yes. But not FS. Mostly for the same reasons as you. It's the same in FPS games: there's nothing that aims as well as my mouse.

[Nuke]

years of using joysticks has made me better with a joystick than with a mouse.

[xXGrifterXx]

Cyborg Fly 5 is terrible for this game, I should know I had one and tried it on freespace open. Buy the  Logitech Extreme 3D pro, it works great.

[jr2]

i overshoot all the damn time too.  although i never thought it was a problem with the stick/FS, just that i was just not great at using it.  which is weird, because i've never NOT used a joystick, and i distinctly remember being MUCH better years ago as a young lad of 12 on retail.  i had a cyborg 3d back then, and an x45 now.  the cyborg was really loose, had a bit of a deadzone problem, and i suspect it didn't have a full range of motion either.  maybe that's why.  or because it was so loose, i didn't muscle it so hard and overshoot.  playing for a while on the x45 physically tires my arms out, the cyborg never did that.

My only foray into joysticks was with an X45.  I switched back shortly after.  Can't hit the broad side of a barn.  It's great right up until you actually try to hit something that's not pulling in one direction, or try to turn and hit the bugger on your tail.  Precision?  Better hope your weapon has auto-aim, or you won't hit ****, at least not if you're me.   I wish I could use it in combination with the mouse, but there's too much lag time between switching.

If someone put a trackball on the top of a joystick (for use by the user's thumb), that'd be the shizz!

[z64555]

I'm telling ya, force sensors are the way to go. The joystick won't have to move more than a millimeter in any direction. 

[jr2]

So, which stick do you recommend?  Is there a list of force-sensor based joysticks somewhere?

[SMill]

Honestly, OP, I never liked playing FS/FS2/FSO with a joystick. Jane's F-15? Yes. Falcon 4.0? Yes. Now, DCS A10? Yes. But not FS. Mostly for the same reasons as you. It's the same in FPS games: there's nothing that aims as well as my mouse.

I actually bought the stick for DCS A-10C and it works pretty well. but I never imagined it'd be so hard with FS2

Cyborg Fly 5 is terrible for this game, I should know I had one and tried it on freespace open. Buy the  Logitech Extreme 3D pro, it works great.

It's too late now, I already bought the thing. I spent a little over $50 on it and I don't have any more extra cash laying around. Plus it's the only thing I can really use since my desk is small and it comes apart and folds away for storage. That way I can keep it plugged in without worrying about it taking up a lot of space.

I'm telling ya, force sensors are the way to go. The joystick won't have to move more than a millimeter in any direction. 

I've heard of force sensor joysticks. It's a cool idea, but I like the feeling of actually moving the stick around as if I were flying the craft. Force sensors seem almost like cheating lol

Thanks a lot for the feedback guys. I'll switch back to mouse controls for FS2 and try some other games with the stick.

[jr2]

Link for joystick mouse script (with on/off toggle) should be in my signature.

[z64555]

I'm telling ya, force sensors are the way to go. The joystick won't have to move more than a millimeter in any direction. 

I've heard of force sensor joysticks. It's a cool idea, but I like the feeling of actually moving the stick around as if I were flying the craft. Force sensors seem almost like cheating lol

Rumor has it that the latest mil' craft use force sensor sticks, but I can't seem to find any good references at the moment...?

[haloboy100]

I don't blame the code or the hardware. FS2 was always a really hard game to aim in for me; the ships are simply a lot less responsive than in other games like X-Wing (where you can instantly reverse your heading without any delay). But I'm amazed at how good I've gotten at it. Just practice.

Also,

[jr2]

lol wut?  Mouse is fine, you just have to max the sensitivity.  Joystick can maneuver just fine, the problem is you can't aim precisely, as it will over shoot.

[TwentyPercentCooler]

lol wut?  Mouse is fine, you just have to max the sensitivity.  Joystick can maneuver just fine, the problem is you can't aim precisely, as it will over shoot.

I love my M570 trackball to death for Freespace, for whatever reason. It's great for fighting annoying pest ships - I can keep turning ALL day. 

[Klaustrophobia]

I'm telling ya, force sensors are the way to go. The joystick won't have to move more than a millimeter in any direction. 

I've heard of force sensor joysticks. It's a cool idea, but I like the feeling of actually moving the stick around as if I were flying the craft. Force sensors seem almost like cheating lol

Rumor has it that the latest mil' craft use force sensor sticks, but I can't seem to find any good references at the moment...?

according to the CO of the last ship i worked on (who is a navy pilot) those types of sticks were a failed experiment.  pilots needed the tactile feedback of the stick moving.

[z64555]

I'm telling ya, force sensors are the way to go. The joystick won't have to move more than a millimeter in any direction. 

I've heard of force sensor joysticks. It's a cool idea, but I like the feeling of actually moving the stick around as if I were flying the craft. Force sensors seem almost like cheating lol

Rumor has it that the latest mil' craft use force sensor sticks, but I can't seem to find any good references at the moment...?

according to the CO of the last ship i worked on (who is a navy pilot) those types of sticks were a failed experiment.  pilots needed the tactile feedback of the stick moving.

Did the experiment include pilots that have "never" used a traditional joystick before? Odds are slim, but hey. 

[Nuke]

i find it amusing the number of military gadgets choosing to employ a gamepad interface. thats got to be one of the worst interfaces of all. thumbs just aint got no dexterity. its like all the cell phone interfaces (tiny keypads and douchscreens) out there. they are all horrible. thing is people get really good with these ****ty interfaces through shear practice. so when some engineer is trying to figure out the best way to control something, they go with the tech that everyone is familiar with, instead of the one that is most suited for the job. this is the same phenomena that causes qwerty keyboards to still be used even though its designed to slow you down.

joysticks are excellent for analog control. they just take practice and become deadly in the right hands.

[Dragon]

Did the experiment include pilots that have "never" used a traditional joystick before? Odds are slim, but hey. 

I feel more comfortable with having a traditional joystick which I can "feel". A force sensor stick would feel really strange. Also, keep in mind that change of directions provided by such a joystick is instant, but the control surface movement isn't.

i find it amusing the number of military gadgets choosing to employ a gamepad interface.

This might have something to do with it.