[The E]

What is GIF theory?

I can guess though, I expect you're saying that there will be fake/poser/wannabe sociopaths on the forum distorting things. But it shouldn't just be disregarded either because of that. It's a forum for sociopaths. There will be sociopaths there.

How many? If you want to use it as a legit source, you have to make sure that what they're saying is actual, unfiltered stuff from actual, unfiltered sociopaths. Given the peculiarities of this medium, that is simply not possible.

As for the other links in your last post, they do lack in what one would call "credentials".

The first collection of three links lacks links to real science. The second is a site started by someone who had a bad relationship with a supposed (!) sociopath and tries to help people in similar situations (which, as far as motivations go, is not all that bad, but a lack of professionalism is notable there too).

As for the supposed sociopath forum, well, I think that that's more like a club for bad sociopath fanfic than anything else.


The problem, dear Lorric, is that you try to argue with people like MP_Ryan and Battuta, who are able to do the actual research and quote the actual science on the matter. You're essentially trying to bring up anecdotal evidence against scientific evidence, which never, EVER works and is a habit you should unlearn.

[MP-Ryan]

Lorric, you are making a series of assumptions that really aren't supported by the research that has actually been conducted on psychopath/sociopathy/ASPD.

A lot of what you're saying seems to come down to this ingrained notion of right/wrong, which is what I'm actually talking about when I say social rules.  I (and researchers) call these things social rules because they are a derivative of society, and not something that's ingrained in people from birth.  Most of the norms and social rules we live our daily lives by are entirely learned (and without giving a lecture on behavioural genetics, we'll just say that there is a genetic basis for behaviour, but its more a predisposition to living in social groups than specific behaviours).  Psychopaths/sociopaths differ in parts of their brain from most people, but it's not because they don't have an ingrained notion of social rules - far from it, they understand these rules implicitly - they simply have less of a resistance to breaking them due to a variety of their personality traits.  But as I said, everyone can and will break certain social rules given means, opportunity, and motive.  Plenty of people speed behind the wheel - that's a social rule being broken, and you endanger others by doing it.  Murder is also the breaking of a social rule.  The difference between a normal personality and a psychopath/sociopath is that a normal person feels remorse when breaking social rules, and the level of remorse (and therefore inhibition) escalates with the magnitude of the rule-breaking.  For a psychopath/sociopath, there is no remorse.  They understand on a conscious level that society views murder as a more serious crime than speeding, but they simply do not care - it doesn't bother them.  Remorse is therefore not a barrier to them.  So like I said before, it's not that psychopaths/sociopaths kill for no reason, it's that the reasons a normal person might not kill don't have any effect on them.

Now, generally when someone asks for a citation around here they mean a specific reference for a claim you're making.  Dumping generic links and telling someone to find it yourself usually doesn't go well or lend credence to an argument.  I'll also point out that the links you've posted are not what I'd call credible sources - fact-checked, peer-reviewed, or research-based.  None of them list their sources, and any website claiming to be a haven for sociopaths is probably a haven for narcissists and other people with delusions of grandeur that think they're sociopaths but actually aren't.

And again, it's not that psychopaths/sociopaths are unable to feel any emotion except anger, it's that they tend to exhibit emotional detachment generally, and often simply do not care.  They can experience anger, grief, love, hate, longing, melancholy, irritability, etc - just not in the same sense as a normal individual.

Anyway, narcissism is often confused with psychopathy/sociopathy, but they aren't the same things.  Narcissists are all about feeling their own self-worth, have impulse control, and can feel remorse.  Psychopaths/sociopaths are characterized by lack of impulse control and remorse, but they are not defined by an obsession with sense of self.  Narcissism is a motivating personality disorder; psychopathy/sociopathy is a disorder which can enable certain behaviour.

I'd you suggest you delete said links altogether, as they are garbage, and do some academic reading instead from legitimate sources.  You asked about the pro-social psychopath information; the best reference I can suggest is an Abnormal Psychology textbook.  Amazon sells them.  I have the Canadian edition (the older one, not this link), but they're all pretty similar (stats just differ by country).

As for Mr. Fallon, he is a neuroscientist who also happens to have the brain physiology (and some of the personality indicators) of a psychopath/sociopath.  His 15-minute youtube clip is well-worth listening to, as he explains some core concepts.

Anyway, if you find this subject interesting, take some college/university-level classes in Psychology.  The university I attended offered abnormal psychology as a 300-level class with minimal pre-requisites, so it's an option even for those that don't major in psychology (I didn't).

[Apollo]

As for you Nuke, panic attacks have nothing to do with being weak.

You're correct about that.

This is highly dangerous to the rest of us though. Why should we suffer this danger?

Is it right to murder someone simply because of their personality?

EDIT: Oh, and not all of them are dangerous, as other people have pointed out.

Yes. But it’s different with sociopaths/psychopaths, which you pretty much admit later. Even monsters sometimes have standards of right and wrong, lines that should not be crossed (like hardened criminals drawing the line at crimes against kids) but there’s nothing to stop a sociopath/psychopath, they have zero respect for the rights and desires of others.

Having some marginal moral standards does not prevent you from being a sociopath.

Anyway, would a normal person, even if they did enjoy inflicting pain, inflict pain for no other reason than their own enjoyment? I’m sure I wouldn’t.

Yes. It's called bullying. Nearly everyone does that at some point in their life.

Anyway though, I’ve certainly heard the word “narcissist” thrown around a lot with sociopaths and psychopaths, enough that I kind of thought the two went hand in glove. Even without it though sociopaths and psychopaths are still extremely dangerous. But it sounds like the narcissists need to be exterminated either instead of or as well.

Again, is it acceptable to kill people because of their personalities?

And even if you think it is, couldn't the government abuse that power to kill dissidents by falsely calling them sociopaths?

[MP-Ryan]

as i understand it my family has been insane to some degree for many generations. moms schizo, my sister is bipolar, my brother gets panic attacks (that pussey), grandma is a little nuts. i hear stories about a few long dead aunts who were in an asylum. the sad thing is when i took psyche 101, we were told that insanity isn't genetic at all. i know this is not the case, but damn.

Actually, there's a fair bit of evidence that certain types of mental illness have a strong basis in genetic factors, triggered by environmental cues.  Among these are depression, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia.

The key is "triggered by environmental factors."  Genetics is not destiny, at least in psychology.

[Lorric]

I wasn't expecting all this anyway, so I wasn't ready for it.

My original motivation in looking into sociopaths/psychopaths wasn't out of interest in them in general, it was out of a desire to be able to detect them and protect myself and potentially others from them.

I'm sorry about the "look for it yourself" thing, I didn't want it to come across that way. I simply didn't know where I got it from.

I may come back to this later, but I'm kind of tired now.

[swashmebuckle]

For a break from creepy extermination stuff, here's a bit of follow up on the political side:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/17/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-obama-idUSBRE8BG0N220121217

Seems the republican party has mostly gone quiet on this for the time being, which I guess is understandable seeing as how they can't really frame it as a healthcare issue given their recent track record there. Will the massacre-mitigation optimists be crushed again if we get our hopes up this time? History points to yes.

[perihelion]

Not destiny, maybe, but the branch certainly doesn't fall far from the tree in my experience.  Granted, this is yet again "anecdotal evidence" (everyone head for the hills!!!), but my grandfather, my mom, and I all have anxiety disorders that wax and wane from inconsequential to periods where we are in the fetal position begging the world to "go away" for weeks on end.  Our life experiences were pretty substantially different, so one wonders what triggers are so common to all of our lives that, if we'd but known, we could have avoided this ****ing annoying "destiny."  And now I'm watching the same nervous harbingers in my daughter, reminding me why I used to swear I wouldn't inflict my genes on another generation.  What environmental cues were we supposed to avoid?  Breathing oxygen?  Being born?

When I was diagnosed w/ GAD, I was "helpfully" advised that I needed to lower the stress level in my life.  As if I had any control over circumstances I was born into.  I'm just saying, genetics may not be destiny, but it's pretty damn close.

[Nuke]

As for you Nuke, panic attacks have nothing to do with being weak.

your supposed to call your brother a pussy. its tradition! the point of my post was to provide (all be it anecdotal) evidence that mental illness is at least partially genetic.

[deathfun]

As for you Nuke, panic attacks have nothing to do with being weak.

your supposed to call your brother a pussy. its tradition! the point of my post was to provide (all be it anecdotal) evidence that mental illness is at least partially genetic.

I can't call my brother a pussy
Then again, he doesn't call me one either

[Black Wolf]

Mental health, yes, more should be done, in every nation. Would definitely go a long way towards solving the problem. But you know what else would? Still gun control. You reckon a nutjob with a knife could have done this?

Like Kara said, it's a second amendment tax, and America seems to be continually willing to pay it. Sad fact, but fact nonetheless.

[Nuke]

Mental health, yes, more should be done, in every nation. Would definitely go a long way towards solving the problem. But you know what else would? Still gun control. You reckon a nutjob with a knife could have done this?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910

[Apollo]

Mental health, yes, more should be done, in every nation. Would definitely go a long way towards solving the problem. But you know what else would? Still gun control. You reckon a nutjob with a knife could have done this?

Like Kara said, it's a second amendment tax, and America seems to be continually willing to pay it. Sad fact, but fact nonetheless.

A nutjob with a knife might have been stopped (as the man in China was), but a nutjob with a sword (weird example, but still relevant) could have done just as much damage.

That said, I agree with you in general.

That said, I agree with you in general; we do need tighter gun control laws.

That said, I agree with you in general. I just think this is one of the

[Apollo]

Sorry, I messed up my post.

Still using my friend's computer that won't let me edit.

[MP-Ryan]

Mental health, yes, more should be done, in every nation. Would definitely go a long way towards solving the problem. But you know what else would? Still gun control. You reckon a nutjob with a knife could have done this?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910

Apples to oranges.  China may have no guns, but they also do not have a culture oriented around the self, and a strong historical precedence for self-defense - unlike the US and Canada.

If Adam Lanza had walked into a school with a knife instead of three semi-automatics, there would not have been 20 children and six adults killed.  Look at the actions of just the principal and school counselor.

[Apollo]

Yeah, but if he'd had a sword he could have done the same thing and killed almost as many people (if not as many).

[Black Wolf]

Mental health, yes, more should be done, in every nation. Would definitely go a long way towards solving the problem. But you know what else would? Still gun control. You reckon a nutjob with a knife could have done this?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910

Apples to oranges.  China may have no guns, but they also do not have a culture oriented around the self, and a strong historical precedence for self-defense - unlike the US and Canada.

If Adam Lanza had walked into a school with a knife instead of three semi-automatics, there would not have been 20 children and six adults killed.  Look at the actions of just the principal and school counselor.

Not to mention, 22 injuries, 2 serious, no fatalities. That's the difference between guns and just about every other type of personal weapon available on the planet - you can kill a lot more people a lot quicker, with fewer non-fatal injuries.

[Flipside]

Yeah, but if he'd had a sword he could have done the same thing and killed almost as many people (if not as many).

Actually, that's highly unlikely, swords are not as fatal as they are made out to be. Even Samurai swords, as sharp as they were, had to be used by someone skilled. Someone unskilled, when rushed would lunge at anywhere, and many points on the human body are not instantly disabling when hit. Also, when you are rushing into a life-death situation, you are awash with endorphins, and may not even care about the degree of damage until the fight is over.

[Apollo]

A sword can easily break bones and cause severe bleeding. A single hit can easily kill you, particularly if you're child with a small and weak body.

[Flipside]

A sword can easily break bones and cause severe bleeding. A single hit can easily kill you, particularly if you're child with a small and weak body.

Broken bones and severe bleeding are bad, but it is the level of penetration of the inner organs that makes the difference, and, without wanting to get into gruesome details at a time like this, the softer nature of childrens bones would actually protect them more. Also, as has been mentioned before, he was rushed by adults, who could certainly get close enough to have an effect.

[Lorric]

No, there's no way he could do that with just a sword. You have to get up close and then you have to actually hit. And people wouldn't just stand around either waiting to be cut down, they'd be running around, they'd be shoving chairs and tables in his way, they'd be throwing objects.