[General Battuta]

I released the Gefs in 'Nothing is True'
One of them replied with "Thank you! Thank you so much! Ghanna, I'm coming home!" I knew I'd made the right choice.

Thats interesting, all I got was 'THIS ISN'T OVER!' before the guy jumped out.

I then wiped my save data and replayed it, detonating their charges as soon as I got the option.  I wanted to make sure the change percolated through later parts of the campaign in case it was saved.

Different Gefs in the wing have different responses to their own survival or death.

[ehlijen]

Hello, new to these forums (found them after discovering Blue Planet through youtube videos).

I'd like to give the makers of this some of the praise you deserve (too much for one person!), and give some suggestions that hopefully won't be taken as too criticising.

First the questions:
I had some technical issues running Act 3
I had to turn down the lighting in Her finest Hour to avoid low frame rates.
I also had trouble installing the mod. I have FS2 in C:\games\ and the installer insisted on creating a new folder called C:\Games\ for it when I told it so. Minor thing to fix once I realised the problem, but odd.

I read most of the material in the dreamscape
Or at least I think I did. You put it there and I want to follow the story, so of course I tried to read it all. I found the Dreamscape a rather bad choice for such info dumps though. The first time was neat, but adding basically another briefing stage for every mission (that requires its own loading screen and a minute or two total of flying around to read everything) didn't, to me, seem to justify the extra effort this must have caused to create.
I'd suggest to either do something with the dreamscape you can't do with more briefing screens (conversations fit in as extra command briefing pages), or leave them out.

One more thing on the dreamscape: I think some of the briefings around it were in the wrong order. IE the first time in the dreamscape, one of the wingman starts talking about 'the man in the shower', which confused me because the red alert briefing describing that incident didn't come until just after that dreamscape.

I released the Gefs in 'Nothing is True'
I assumed I had to fight for Noemi's soul in this campaign, so I took every chance I could to keep her human. But really, should that even have been an option? The Fedayyeen know that the GEF have some ties to the SOC/Steele. Giving him even a chance to find intact flight recorders of the strike seemed too high a risk to me.

I don't think the Ridwan pilots had to die
At least not at the convoy attack site. Finding UEF wreckage amongst the mess should have convinced the Vasudans to stay in the war, not get them question doing so. Why did their flight recorders conveniently only show why they arrived, but not what they saw? That's pretty complex editing to be done in a few seconds of combat.

Those wingmen were not my favorite people
None of them seemed as fleshed out as the wingmen from WiH1. Possibly because the odd order of dreamscape/diary entries made interacting with them confusing at times.

I had a horrible time on the assassination
I don't like stealth sneaking games, that's all. I'm sure it was a great mission for those who do.
I pulled that assassination off with NO ITEMS
I tried hacking the mjolnir the second try, but got bored when the directives said 'Wait nearby' for too long and just Grimlered the transport and got out (few sidhe shots as well, of course).

I captured the Gef habitat in 'One Future'
I wanted to fight the GEF destroyer!

'One Future' didn't change my earlier decision about the Gef pilots
Honestly, I'm still not sure what difference that decision made. The only problems I had with this mission was when the transport ran into one Alastor I'd missed because it was behind a tower.

I loved flying the Custos-X
I also loved the Blade itself. Just not convinced the mission fit into this campaign (more on that below).

I was overwhelmed by 'Her Finest Hour'
Starting the mission facing the whole mess made figuring out what was going on fairly difficult as everything overlapped. I also couldn't figure out till the third try how to call arty strikes (a note saying that you need to switch it away from free fire first would have helped).
As it was, I didn't feel like I was doing much that a junior(regular by now? not senior yet, really) pilot should have been doing. Why was Calder letting me direct fleets? Why were the Fedayyeen letting their most rookie member be in charge?
It was a neat puzzle mission and probably the best way to fly a stealth fighter in a big battle, but as I said, stealth games aren't my thing.

I took the Carthage's surrender
Gotta keep that humanity. Also, Agincourt + Carthage = maybe an extra ship for the finale?

Placing turrets was tricky during 'Eyes in the Storm'
The camera was jerky and I had trouble figuring out the controls. Also not a fan of tower defence games.

'Universal Truth' really freaked me out
Bravo I say! Needs checkpoints though.

I met the face of madness in 'Universal Truth'
Not on the first try.

I escaped 'Universal Truth' with my mind intact
Not the first time. Hang on Wargods, I'm coming to help!

I'm uncomfortable with the Fedayeen
As no doubt I'm meant to be. They are the nastiest things of black ops squared, after all.

I have supported the UEF, and still do
Always thought the GTVA were big meanies for attacking in the first place.

Humanity has a chance!
But Noemi is doomed. Too broken.


I think Blue Planet is a great campaign overall. Aqe of Aquarius, while well executed, didn't really wow me with the story. Everything seemed a bit too straight forward (I'm really glad WiH Act 3 finally throws some doubt on that, though I probably just missed it at the time). I enjoyed playing it, but wasn't suprised by much in the story. It hooked me enough to get into WiH1 though, and for that I thank it even more.

WiH1 is amazing! Interesting main character, side cast, overarcing plot, and I honestly don't know where all the clues are headed. I was expecting the elders to be building a summon-the-shivans-to-make-the-war-go-away button, but it seems not.
Amazing ending, as well. "We are not Fleet. We are Fedayyeen."
The gameplay was great as well, even though I think maybe a training mission or two for some of the new concepts might have helped. I had no idea what Subspace missile strikes were or how to stop them until the second playthrough. Especially the Uriel missions in the end threw a bit too much new gear at the player with no explanation. I loved those missions and the Uriel, but I was a bit confused as to what I should be bringing into missions and why.

Then comes WiH act 3. It was good. But it didn't feel as coherent as act 1 or 2. And I think that's for a few reasons:
-Characters. It was a short act, so there wasn't as much to work with I guess. And I understand that you were trying to un-humanise them. But to me that also un-characterised them. Add in confusing order of briefings around the dreamscapes (see shower incident mention above) and I had trouble getting mental images of them. Still worlds better than the anonymous FS2 pilots, of course!
-Dreamscape: I felt it broke the flow too much for what it did. If it's just a series of chats between Noemi and 1 other person each, it cold have fit into the command briefing as optional separate pieces, couldn't it? I get that you wanted to show it at least once, but after turn 2 it started feeling more like a chore than a cool way to add more info.
-Gameplay focus: This act has very varied gameplay. In a way that's good, but in a way that's bad. It's good in that it adds variety. It's bad in that it feels like each mission changes the game being played and you don't get a chance to get more comfortable or just enjoy any given new mechanic. Even if act 3 was meant as an introduction to mechanics in act 4 and 5, I felt like the only thing I learned was the need to read the new windows and try all the buttons named in them to see what happens (because without training missions or briefing explanations things like 'to call arty, first stop it from firing at will' were actual little puzzles to figure out in combat).
I liked the convoy mission, the cruiser mission, the non-tower defence part of the Jupiter mission (Uriels! Yeah!) and the scope of Her finest Hour. (The final mission was also great, but 70% cutscene, so not much to say about gameplay there.) I didn't like the assassination (mechanically speaking, morally I'm sure most don't but that's the point) the tower defence and the fact that in Her finest Hour I felt more like an old fashioned phone operator than a fighter pilot (as in, I would have preferred doing all that ordering about + getting stuck in in an Uriel myself).
The downside of trying so many new mechanics is of course that some won't like them all (like picky old me). That's not a reason to abandon them, but it's not really a reason to not explore them past one mission either.


Anyway: tl;dr I love Blue Planet, thanks for making it! But I have concerns over some changes in direction act 3 seems to have taken. I hope they get ironed out or made to pay off in Act 4 and 5, because the story is still going strong and I want to know where it goes.

I hope I make sense and again I hope I'm not to mean in the criticism.

[An4ximandros]

Different Gefs in the wing have different responses to their own survival or death.

As If I needed more reasons to replay the **** out of WIH Gamma & The (Future) Director's Cut.

[Legate Damar]

The only good humanity is a doomed humanity.

[MatthTheGeek]

Obviously.

[Tanksurge]

 I had some technical issues running Act 3: Ran into couple problems but over all it runs good

I read most of the material in the dreamscape: It fits to the background sorry for Act 3.

 I sanitized the Gefs in 'Nothing is True':  Reason i've done it because if they were release, can the Fedayeen trust the Gefs word?  Who knows if they send info to the GTVA tho.

 I believed the Ridwan pilots had to die: For sake of Earth.   Yeah..... Granted it may be wrong, but the Fedayeen knows that everything is at stake here to win the war against the GTVA.

 I don't think the Ridwan pilots had to die: If they were to lived, well never know if Fedayeen recruit them or tell command on something.......
 Kovacs was my favorite wingman
 Falconer was my favorite wingman
 Vidaura was my favorite wingman
 Those wingmen were not my favorite people: Well in most blackops, you don't get to know people.   They will do what it takes to get the job done.

 I had a horrible time on the assassination:  It takes practices, altho you don't get to do assassination in other campaigns.

 I had no trouble pulling off the assassination:  ^ same from the previous.

 I used the decoy transport during the assassination:  i use them but put them in the wrong place lol.  not sure putting under the station would do.

 I used the sensor flashbang during the assassination: yeah but need to learn to use them in a distance.

 I hacked a Mjolnir during the assassination: didn't know about that part   

 I pulled that assassination off with NO ITEMS:  remains to be seen. 

 I destroyed the Gef reactor in 'One Future': I've destroyed it once but ended up getting stuck on my way out of the tunnel    Don't know how i did that lol

 I captured the Gef habitat in 'One Future': Well its wrong to kill millions that arn't part what the Gefs were gonna do.

 I loved flying the Custos-X: I acutally like flying the Custos-X ship.  A fun ship

 I was overwhelmed by 'Her Finest Hour': At first yes, didn't know what to do in order to get all the objection done correctly.

 I adapted well to 'Her Finest Hour':  Wrote down few notes, again takes few practices

 I destroyed the Carthage: Now why would i want to destroyed that ship?

 I took the Carthage's surrender:  Who knows, could put that ship into good uses.  Besides the UEF can adapted the shock jump that the Carthage's has.

 I summoned the Toutatis in 'Her Finest Hour': MORE FIREPOWER!!!! 

 I got the Toutatis killed by Serkr in 'Her Finest Hour': never got that part yet.

 I had no trouble with the turret placement in 'Eyes in the Storm': Mission was cool.
 Placing turrets was tricky during 'Eyes in the Storm'
 I wasn't bothered by 'Universal Truth': Nah......

 'Universal Truth' really freaked me out: Oh it scared the hell out of me for a min.  Reminds back in Transcent, even with the music in the background 

 I met the face of madness in 'Universal Truth':

 I escaped 'Universal Truth' with my mind intact. Since Noemi knows that Ken is real now (which i'm sure he'll show up either during Act 5 or BP3) and knows what to do now.   

 I found the laughing man in 'Universal Truth': Laughing man?

 I recognize the necessity of the Fedayeen: again everything is at stake to win this war.

 I'm uncomfortable with the Fedayeen: Who wasn't uncomfortable in the SOC?  Hell Snipe was good and funny back then too.

 I have supported the UEF, and still do:  I wanted to see the UEF win this war.  There fighting for their home.  Even being cut off for over 50 years.

 I have supported the GTVA, and still do:  I see their point of view but they failed on diplomatic. 

 Humanity is doomed!:  Remains to be seen.

 Humanity has a chance!:  Same


Over all you guys done a great job.  Looking forward for act 4 and 5.  On her finest hour, whats the name of the music that starts the mission till you called in the reinforcement? 

[Crybertrance]

On her finest hour, whats the name of the music that starts the mission till you called in the reinforcement?

The song is Kronos by Two Steps from Hell 

[Deadly in a Shadow]

I had some technical issues running Act 3

Not exactly technical issues. Said issues were more FRED-related because I played with .16 RC1 mwahahah!

I read most of the material in the dreamscape

Varies. I liked talking to the HOL and to Thorn.

I released the Gefs in 'Nothing is True'

I was a Buntu during the mission.

I believed the Ridwan pilots had to die

Well, it was necessary. These three guys nearly blew off the entire mission.

Vidaura was my favorite wingman

She was the one I considered the "most human". I liked her.

Those wingmen were not my favorite people

I still want my Wargod pilots back.

I had no trouble pulling off the assassination

The assassination was pure fun.

I used the decoy transport during the assassination

Yeah, I TRIED to make use of this asset, but it got beam'd anyway (too far away from the station)

I used the sensor flashbang during the assassination

The Shrikes?

I destroyed the Gef reactor in 'One Future'

Had a hard time with the Morena Macduff (and I wanted to solve the mission without killing thousands of people), then I decided to blow up the motivator.

'One Future' didn't change my earlier decision about the Gef pilots

They're friggin Gefs. Who caaares?

I loved flying the Custos-X

UEF definitely needs more of them.

I was overwhelmed by 'Her Finest Hour'

A bit. Didn't took any notes. But I adapted well after some trial-and-error. Was fun to order the artillery around.

I took the Carthage's surrender

It's still a shiny, blue Orion-Destroyer. And I like Lopez. And the colour blue.

I had no trouble with the turret placement in 'Eyes in the Storm'

TOWER DEFENSE!

'Universal Truth' really freaked me out

The mind**** moment of the year, spanning a lot of minutes.
Well, I wasn't bothered about the orbital bombardement. It's the dreamscape (on some sense) after all.
That "GD chase" freaked me out, especially when that thing was about to blast right through me with insane speed and the only thing you saw was greyish stuff floating above you.
And the rest was, plotwise, the absolute Mindscrew.

I met the face of madness in 'Universal Truth'

Oh, yes. I DID turn around.
Vishnans didn't captured me.

I escaped 'Universal Truth' with my mind intact

I don't know exactly about that. If you decide to stay, the mind integrity-meter says "perfectly fine", but considering the debriefing....

I found the laughing man in 'Universal Truth'

Dunno.

Spoiler:

But I was visited by the Transcendent during a "funthrough". I still hate this guy
Oh, and he laughed at me. I found him, err, he found me

I recognize the necessity of the Fedayeen

The chaotic/lawful neutral (evil?) inside the UEF, doing the really dirty work. The war would be over without them.

I'm uncomfortable with the Fedayeen

I'm uncomfortable with the many Al-Da'was onboard the Masyaf.

I changed sides from UEF to GTVA

There was a little GTVA-supporter in me, during Act 1 and 2. And this little dude wasn't disappointed. GTVA never changed and I think, that they're doing the right thing. Self-determination for Humanity!

I'm actually very wondrous about Chiwetel Steele. He is aware of contingency MORPHEUS. Is he really the gloryhound, or is he trying to savor humanity and fears what may come?


I have supported the UEF, and still do

The Federation itself, especially the determined military. NOT the Elders.

Humanity has a chance!

Let's kick some vishnan ass. I want to order around Serkr Team next time.

Oh, and Toqueville mentioned the Vassago incident. Vassago's Dirge, anyone?

[MatthTheGeek]

Oh, and Toqueville mentioned the Vassago incident. Vassago's Dirge, anyone?

You might want to have a look at the tech description of BP's Cretheus.

[Ryuseiken]

I used the sensor flashbang during the assassination
The Shrikes?

No, scanning the sensor subsystem of the station gives you the option you cause a massive emp missile effect that knocks out all sensors in the area (including yours).

[crizza]

Oh, and Toqueville mentioned the Vassago incident. Vassago's Dirge, anyone?

You might want to have a look at the tech description of BP's Cretheus.

Hm, after deleting my old pilot file...which act3 mission unlocks all tech descriptions?
Using the F3 thingy, I can only so terran ships till the Atalanta.

[General Battuta]

Just press ctrl-shift-S man

[An4ximandros]

Spoiler:

The description of The Great Darkness and having a good look at it have made me even more curious about things... and have made me think about The GD's original purpose and why the protocol is what it is.

Thanks for the dang key combo, I forgot it even existed.

[swashmebuckle]

I couldn't run Act 3 until jg18 made a build that used the old rendering code and therefore could run on mac OS 10.6. After that, my only technical issue was a random crash in the Jupiter mission when I let one of the Vasudan transports dock with the platform.

I read most of the material in the dreamscape. I think it was a really good idea to dump all the extra fleshing out info into this area, as it meant the briefings could be pure instruction for those super-dense missions without the campaign feeling too spare. I'd have liked it if the ships were a little closer together though!

One of the other pilots released the Gefs in 'Nothing is True'. I tried to make them take out the Vasudan fighters and stuff after their main job was done.

I believed the Ridwan pilots had to die because that's the whole thrust of the story, right? I guess at some point you will have to choose whether to sacrifice Simms to win? I only draw the line at my videogame mom--you can always get another videogame girlfriend.

Those wingmen were not my favorite people. I'm not super invested in any of the characters really, probably because we mostly just see them being douche bags and talking about how killing people is necessary and also kinda fun. I really enjoyed the Sam-Noemi meeting though where he was all "Come fly with me in this crystal friend-ship" and she wasn't having any of it.

I had a horrible time on the assassination and had to try it like 6-8 times because half the time I couldn't get the proper transport to register even when I was pointing right at it from point-blank range and the meter was spiked all the way up. I figured I was doing something wrong, so I tried the alternate paths (sensor and mjolnir) a couple times each and botched those up too before coming back and finally getting it right using the decoy.

I captured the Gef habitat in 'One Future', though I'm sad to say I let Earth be destroyed on my first time through because I had no idea what was going on. It turned out to be one of my favorite missions though!

'One Future' didn't change my earlier decision about the Gef pilots unless it would have been cooler. What changes if you kill the pilots?

I loved flying the Custos-X. Nothing like swatting wimpy fighters away with the main cannon.

I was overwhelmed by 'Her Finest Hour' because I couldn't remember what all the ships there were doing and didn't have a good grip on what to prioritize. I never figured out that you could line up multiple targets for the artillery ships, which might have helped with that.

I took the Carthage's surrender because I want to personally Kamikaze it into the Atreus in the last chapter, Koth-style.

I had no trouble with the turret placement in 'Eyes in the Storm', I just dumped them all in the beginning and never though about them again. That mission was really awesome, and I loved the skybox and orbital bombardment finale.

I wasn't bothered by 'Universal Truth', I guess because I didn't turn around and see the crazy thing that everyone is talking about. Actually, I was kind of bothered by the fact that Noemi is Bosch's brain's daughter, unless I'm misinterpreting that. I was totally crushing on Bosch's brain and then he was like "No, I am your father."

I recognize the necessity of the Fedayeen during the War in Heaven but they'll probably have to be disbanded before the subsequent Hoedown in Shivantown gets out of hand.

I have supported the UEF, and still do because that's who I'm playing as.

Humanity has a chance, and her name is Alpha 1. Duh. This chapter was super great; I think it's my favorite BP release yet. A big congratulations and thank you to everyone who worked on it!

[crazy_dave]

Just finished the game and the poll. Very cool!

-------------
Bugs:

There was a bug where if the Ridwan (UEF?) fighters escaped in the first mission and it ended I got the mission success debrief instead of failure. I was however stopped from progressing as I should've been and forced to redo the mission.

I think the rest of these are known: Like swasmebuckly I ran into the bug with Vasudan transports docking and the game crashing. I also ran into the problem with not triggering the Shivan data nodes on replaying the final mission. Artillery stops responding in "Her Finest Hour" - also not really a bug but just slow frame-rates in that mission (to be expected though).
------------


Some thoughts and questions - I let the GEF pilots go, but only because I thought I was letting them live, but returning them to to UEF custody! (i.e. that they had one jump in their fighters and it was to Fedayeen controlled space). If I had known they were going to be truly released I would've sanitized - not mind you because I found out they called in reinforcements for the buddies in a later mission, but because the operational security of that mission demanded it! I mean if the UEF or Vasudans got word back the mission was a failure, but for the GEF pilots to do so it was okay? If the Kostadin cell turned those guys over to Steele, he might not have been so quick to destroy his erstwhile allies. There is a substantial risk he would've believed the Kostadins because it is exactly what he would have done in the UEF's place. The fact I found out that the GEF pilots told their friends of our ruthlessness (when I saved their lives and showed mercy, huh) didn't really bother because, well, frankly once I learned how to handle the Custos, the enemy units were no match.

None of the mission's difficulty (on medium) bothered me greatly (they were very intense though) but maybe 'cuz I didn't mind dying while I was figuring out what to do. For each mission I had to figure out the control scheme (could take a few tries getting killed) and that I had to stop acting like a fighter pilot: that I was assassin or commanding officer but not a fighter pilot. Once I let go of that and directed action instead of being in it, or only darting in when necessary, the missions became manageable. 

Once I figured out the controls properly (I'm a slow learner, so a few tries ), that helped completing the missions well - sometimes with flying colors: e.g. they were quite pleased with my assassination and not getting a scratch, hell not even being detected by using the turrets - though I think I might have borked it because I did start flying away before the thing fired, but it still fired so I guess it was okay (bug or no? because the description said to stay close to the turret). On a previous attempt, I tried the sensor disruptor, but it didn't seem to help, they got a radar lock on my anyway when I tried to kill the shuttle. How does one effectively use it?

Her Finest Hour I did alright in, but in some ways I'm glad I didn't do that well. Am I to take it that if you do really well and don't need or don't call in the Toutatis, that she gets destroyed by Serkr? That's would be a horrific loss for the UEF - I mean even if I captured the Carthage so that it could be used by the UEF as a destroyer, I'm not sure that mission would qualify as a victory ... So essentially, because I didn't do as well as I could've done and needed to call her in, the Toutatis survived? My incompetence was useful? I assume Calder escapes the destruction of his flagship? So I saved the Serenity and the Toutatis, but lost a lot of fighter pilots. I guess if I had to do it over again, while my version still sounds like great deal - one captured destroyer, one captured Corvette, two captured stations, one saved frigate, one saved destroyer, lots of dead fighter pilots - I would probably order the fighter pilots retreat immediately after disabling the Carthage, try to save more of them while still retaining the other positives. So as to the warning that the death of the fighter pilots may factor in to later missions, will so the saving of the Serenity or the Toutatis?

Thematically I liked it a lot, a really interesting tale. I'm still pro-UEF as I think the GTA waaaay overreacted. Their reasons make a little more sense than they did before as frankly before I couldn't see their gain in instigating a military confrontation. Now I can sort of see why they did it, but it was still a truly bad idea in my book. Too much risk, too little reward. How did they find out the Vishnans were manipulating the UEF society? I guess we'll find out more about that ...

The dreamscape was pretty neat. I usually mined it for all it was worth, even clicking multiple times to get the extra info. Universal truth was good, but it was a bit tiring holding the afterburners down. I failed a few times before finally reaching 'Ken'. I suspected about half-way through the campaign who Ken might be and it was interesting twist on the Vishnans and Shivans. Even if the outcome is desirable, no one likes being just a tool. Of course, I would be worried if I were Laporte that I was just a pawn of 'Ken'. After all the Shivans in the alternate universe wanted to continue the cull anyway, what changed their minds? Are they the same Shivans in our universe? Are they cross-universal? The Vishnans by their descriptions and actions appear to be partially ... I guess we'll find out more about that too ...

I like the notes about Steele - how the fact that all his traps required such precise timing, so many things to go as planned and that this could be his downfall. There's a quote I'm half-remembering which Wellington said of his French opponents ... something to the effect that their plans were magnificent pieces of clockwork - but it was not meant as a complement. Of his own plans he described them as cutting and retying ropes together when they fell apart. Paraphrased heavily as I couldn't find the quote. In other words, much the same criticism Laporte had of Steele: his plans are brilliant, but they require everything to go right, they're not flexible or adaptable. They require too much precision in the machinery.

So all-in-all well written, very inventive missions - it was nice not being just a simple fighter pilot, though some of the controls could've been explained better been ... cleaner. Overall I give a slight edge to the first two parts of WiH: the character arcs and emotional blow of Delenda Est and Sun Glare are hard to beat. But with that as the yard stick, this was another brilliant entry. Looking forward to the next installments! and - after the neat break that was Act 3 - fighting as a (mostly) regular fighter jock with Calder!

[Aesaar]

Am I to take it that if you do really well and don't need or don't call in the Toutatis, that she gets destroyed by Serkr?

No.  The Toutatis survives either way. If it doesn't get called, it sits in a safe place, probably Mars.  The Toutatis is the Solaris in the ending cutscene.

The only way for it to die is if Serkr kills it in front of you, in which case you fail the mission.

[crazy_dave]

Am I to take it that if you do really well and don't need or don't call in the Toutatis, that she gets destroyed by Serkr?

No.  The Toutatis survives either way. If it doesn't get called, it sits in a safe place, probably Mars.  The Toutatis is the Solaris in the ending cutscene.

The only way for it to die is if Serkr kills it in front of you, in which case you fail the mission.

Yeah I was wondering about that ... I simply supposed it could've been the Eris, but I knew she was being transferred to Calder. It makes sense that if Serkr kills her that fails the mission - though oddly I don't even remember Serkr jumping in ... hmmm ... Is there something you have to fail to do to get Serkr called in or have them be effective?

[Gray113]

I like the notes about Steele - how the fact that all his traps required such precise timing, so many things to go as planned and that this could be his downfall. There's a quote I'm half-remembering which Wellington said of his French opponents ... something to the effect that their plans were magnificent pieces of clockwork - but it was not meant as a complement. Of his own plans he described them as cutting and retying ropes together when they fell apart. Paraphrased heavily as I couldn't find the quote. In other words, much the same criticism Laporte had of Steele: his plans are brilliant, but they require everything to go right, they're not flexible or adaptable. They require too much precision in the machinery.

I like the analogy of steele as the Napoleon figure and in some ways I think that's what the BP team were aiming for as the ruthless, feared and seemingly unstopable general however I think that the main inspiration for the upcoming battle of Earth will be the battle of Kursk in WW2.

There we also had a technologically superior, well trained and disciplined army going up against a force that had suffered numerous defeats, enormous losses in manpower/equipment but that had been boosted by the recapture of Stalingrad, the destruction of an enemy army group and upgraded weapons becoming available. Both sides know that loss for the defenders will end the war and both sides are going to throw everything they have got into the battle in order to win. For the aggressors however there is also the problems of logistics with depleted fuel supplies limiting the time that the can commit their full forces forcing them to make rash decisions as well as an increasingly impatient government demanding victory before the defenders can be properly reduced.

For this we can compare Steele to Von Manstien - a masterfull tank commander who knew how to position his forces in order to outmaneuver and inflict massive casualties on his enemy's.

In the other side we have what could be the unexpected hero of the defence of Earth Admiral Byrne a.k.a. Georgy Zhukov - Under severe pressure to commit his forces to costly battles he instead holds his best units in reserve utilising superior intelligence of his opponents plans and fortifies his position attempting to draw his enemy in to a costly slugging match where his enemy's mobility will be severely limited and his artillery can be used to cut down the assaults before they reach their goals.

In the end the aftermath of the battle may be the same. Both sides take horrendous losses but the line holds, The GTVA forces withdraw in order to regroup and await reinforcement and supply whilst the UEF use this breathing space to rebuild their shattered infrastructure and to finally mobilise their industrial base on to a war footing (which has been left intact as the GTVA forces sought to capture it to build their own forces).

Result UEF offensive begins just in time for BP3.

[MatthTheGeek]

Yeah I was wondering about that ... I simply supposed it could've been the Eris, but I knew she was being transferred to Calder. It makes sense that if Serkr kills her that fails the mission - though oddly I don't even remember Serkr jumping in ... hmmm ... Is there something you have to fail to do to get Serkr called in or have them be effective?

Serkr only jumps in if Steele thinks the Toutatis is too vulnerable. That roughly translates in the two artillery gone and/or most of the strike wings wasted. I don't remember the exact triggers.

[crazy_dave]

I like the notes about Steele - how the fact that all his traps required such precise timing, so many things to go as planned and that this could be his downfall. There's a quote I'm half-remembering which Wellington said of his French opponents ... something to the effect that their plans were magnificent pieces of clockwork - but it was not meant as a complement. Of his own plans he described them as cutting and retying ropes together when they fell apart. Paraphrased heavily as I couldn't find the quote. In other words, much the same criticism Laporte had of Steele: his plans are brilliant, but they require everything to go right, they're not flexible or adaptable. They require too much precision in the machinery.

I like the analogy of steele as the Napoleon figure and in some ways I think that's what the BP team were aiming for as the ruthless, feared and seemingly unstopable general however I think that the main inspiration for the upcoming battle of Earth will be the battle of Kursk in WW2.

There we also had a technologically superior, well trained and disciplined army going up against a force that had suffered numerous defeats, enormous losses in manpower/equipment but that had been boosted by the recapture of Stalingrad, the destruction of an enemy army group and upgraded weapons becoming available. Both sides know that loss for the defenders will end the war and both sides are going to throw everything they have got into the battle in order to win. For the aggressors however there is also the problems of logistics with depleted fuel supplies and an increasingly impatient government demanding victory before the defenders can be properly reduced.

For this we can compare Steele to Von Manstien - a masterfull tank commander who knew how to position his forces in order to outmaneuver and inflict massive casualties on his enemy's.

In the other side we have what could be the unexpected hero of the defence of Earth Admiral Byrne a.k.a. Georgy Zhukov - Under severe pressure to commit his forces to costly battles he instead holds his best units in reserve utilising superior intelligence of his opponents plans and fortifies his position attempting to draw his enemy in to a costly slugging match where his enemy's mobility will be severely limited and his artillery can be used to cut down the assaults before they reach their goals.

In the end the aftermath of the battle may be the same. Both sides take horrendous losses but the line holds, The GTVA forces withdraw in order to regroup and await reinforcement and supply whilst the UEF use this breathing space to rebuild their shattered infrastructure and to finally mobilise their industrial base on to a war footing (which has been left intact as the GTVA forces sought to capture it to build their own forces).

Result UEF offensive begins just in time for BP3.

Aye, Patton, Napoleon (although the Wellington quote was aimed at the French Marshals he fought in Spain rather than Napoleon himself), pick of any of the great German Panzer generals - any commander that emphasized decisive, aggressive action is a good model for Steele and for Napoleon the aura of invincibility the younger Napoleon had.

Kursk is a decent analogy but the UEF are also outnumbered in addition to be out-teched in their capital ship combat whereas, despite the horrendous losses, the Russians could still field huge numbers of troops (tangent: I remember one story, perhaps apocryphal, that, in the beginning of the campaign, the Germans captured more Russian divisions than the Germans had thought even existed). The UEF's one strategic advantage is the bottleneck of the artificial jump point and that GTA is still worried about Shivans so they can't just deploy their whole fleet through it. Steele even shattered much of the UEF industry deciding he could shorten the war rather than worrying about taking it intact. The Russians in one of the great logistical feats of the war, amazingly moved their industry out of harms way. In other words, I think the UEF has an even bigger hole to climb out of than the Russian did. I actually kind of agree with the Elders that a purely military victory seems unlikely for the UEF ... unless victory is defined that the GTA decides it simply isn't worth the losses it would take to defeat the UEF - i.e. the GTA government/populace gives up first if the losses are high enough. Kursk, as you pointed out, was the breaking point that allowed the Russians to go on the offensive. Excepting the result of GTA political collapse, which is possible, beating Steele simply means survival militarily. Any losses the GTA suffers can be replaced - the GTA lost a destroyer and simply deployed two more. The UEF have to hope a military victory translates into a political one (though of course there is also the Elder's 'secret plan' that lends a 'partial' victory over the GTA and can be used agains the Shivans).

How I think its going to go is the next act is survival against Steele's final plan with the setup that leads to a conflict within both the GTVA and UEF. Where elements disatisfied with the war against their home in the GTA finally take root and so does Laporte's insurrection against the Vishnan control in her government. This will set the stage for the final conflict against the Shivan/Vishnan/Great Darkness threat. And as I mentioned in my overly-long opus above, while the Vishnans may be enemies too (or at least with friends like them who needs enemies?), I also wouldn't trust Ken either if I were Laporte. There doesn't seem to be any reason why any of them would treat humanity as anything other than pawns on a board of bone (had to throw that in there). Maybe Ken does want humanity, 'his' once-species, to survive. Maybe the Vishnans are vindictive bastards - they certainly see humans as nothing more than ants, but then, the Shivans are no different in that respect. Humanity's, and, even more so sadly for them, the Vasudan's, prospects are not great, not zero, but it's going to get rough. But there I go prognosticating and am probably providing amusing fodder for the BP story team.

Speaking of Vasudans, they could use some newer designs and weapons in their fighters and cap ships too. C'mon BP team, show 'em some love! /sillymode - in seriousness, the new BP ship designs are really good, so I'd love to see them tackle new Vasudan fighters and cap ships beyond massive transports, but they may not have the time/resources to do so which given the massive undertaking is more than reasonable.