[James Razor]

I dont know if the GTVA is realy THAT superiour. Tbh.: Especially in Fighter terms they seem to lack a bit in comperation.

Also, some of the defensiv systems on UEF ships could be worth looking into and trying to either adapt it for existing ships or include them in future designs. Didnt someone say the UEF has some sort of shield system inside their hulls? Like the Structural Integritiy Field from Star Trek?


Just btw.: i would be realy interessted in seeing how a UEF Task Force would perform against a Shivan Battlegroupe.

[Qent]

Didnt someone say the UEF has some sort of shield system inside their hulls? Like the Structural Integritiy Field from Star Trek?

I think it's been said that both sides' warships have those. In fact every warship since before the Great War may have had them.

[Aesaar]

I dont know if the GTVA is realy THAT superiour. Tbh.: Especially in Fighter terms they seem to lack a bit in comperation.

GTVA TEI Wave 2 fighters (Atalanta, Nyx, Draco) are as effective as their Federation equivalents.  I personally think they're better, actually (because they're smaller and tougher).  Bombers are a whole other story though.

[CT27]

What then could the GTVA learn from UEF bombers if they manage to get their hands on some after the war?

[niffiwan]

How to create primaries with the "huge" flag? 

(of course, it'd need to be changed to an energy weapon to fit with GTVA "policy")

edit: oh yeah, and the swarm torpedo tech - although currently Shivan PD is so poor that it may not be needed.  It would let you launch from further away in order to distract the PD from your own craft.

[Klaustrophobia]

i've always felt the GTVA is more brute force plus BEAMZ!, whereas the UEF is more technologically diverse and flexible.

[niffiwan]

I think those UEF bombers definitely fit into the brute force category...

[Gray113]

As has been done to death though the UEF military is designed for the unique environment in Sol where ships can be supplied with reloads and fuel quickly. GTVA ships with beam weapons are less reliant on close supply and their fighter craft are cheap superiority fighters designed for independent operations against massed ranks of inferior shivan bombers.

UEF tactics work so well in Sol because they are operating in their optimal environment - without radical redesign of their weapon systems they would quickly run out of ammo in the remote systems where the GTVA intend to fight the shivans. The GTVA want to keep the fight away from their home systems, indeed if GTVA were fighting the Shivans in their home systems then the fight would already be lost as the GTVA strategy is designed around containing the enemy untill the systems can be shut.

[Drogoth]

As has been done to death though the UEF military is designed for the unique environment in Sol where ships can be supplied with reloads and fuel quickly. GTVA ships with beam weapons are less reliant on close supply and their fighter craft are cheap superiority fighters designed for independent operations against massed ranks of inferior shivan bombers.

UEF tactics work so well in Sol because they are operating in their optimal environment - without radical redesign of their weapon systems they would quickly run out of ammo in the remote systems where the GTVA intend to fight the shivans. The GTVA want to keep the fight away from their home systems, indeed if GTVA were fighting the Shivans in their home systems then the fight would already be lost as the GTVA strategy is designed around containing the enemy untill the systems can be shut.

Speaking of until systems can be shut, I've always wondered (maybe this has been discussed) do the Tevs have a supply of meson bombs in each system? Enough to nuke each node in the system? At least in the border ones? If not, then why don't they?

Seems to me that they could catch sight of the Shivans, identify their entry point, and nuke the node in a matter of hours. A day and a half tops.

For example if we had had that in Capella they could have nuked the Capella-Gamm Drac node before the massive line of Jugs cleared the node.

[MatthTheGeek]

1) Nuking the nodes without actual threat is counterproductive. If no invasion has come yet and the GTVA needs to expand (to accommodate more pop or find more resources) (I'm talking on the long to very long term here), they'll be sorry to have closed those nodes.

2) If the GTVA can't repel a Shivan Incursion and they need to trigger one of their "gtfo" contingencies, they'll be happy to still have nodes opens to flee through.

3) Better not waste meson bombs if you don't have to. Who knows how many meson fireships the Shivans may blow up before you can get them to the node, or who knows how many meson bombs you'd want to save against a Sath fleet or a Dante.

4) The GTVA doesn't know that closing nodes is enough to repel Shivan Incursions, and/or that the Shivans can't rebuild nodes, and/or that they couldn't just come through less stable nodes that the GTVA can't jump meson fireships through or simply hasn't detected yet.

tl:dr : blowing nodes left and right is like trying to defend a large building from a zombie apocalypse by closing the window in the bathroom.

[QuakeIV]

He means do they have enough fireships in each system on standby to quick-response any shivans detected entering the area.

[Drogoth]

He means do they have enough fireships in each system on standby to quick-response any shivans detected entering the area.

Yes, that's my question

[MatthTheGeek]

Which... was covered in my answer ? Can you ever have enough meson fireships to stop a Shivan Incursion ?

[Buckshee Rounds]

Which... was covered in my answer ? Can you ever have enough meson fireships to stop a Shivan Incursion ?

I'm sure the Alliance has plenty of Atens they can kamikaze into nodes. One Aten is an Aten too many imo.

[MatthTheGeek]

1) You'll notice the Zods still use Atens in active service, and they refitted em with some kickass weaponry (LVasPulse and Energy Flak).

2) It's not a matter of how many ships you have to fit them with meson bombs, it's a matter of how many meson bombs you can produce to fit them in the ships.

[General Battuta]

Matth now that you have a team badge be aware that people are going to take your thoughts as canon. 

[Drogoth]

*shrug* How expensive is it to build them? They evidently are cheap enough to be deployed in TBI as a weapon.

How many does it take to a nuke a node? How many nodes are there to nuke? 2 dozen tops me thinks, allthough thats just a guestimate. Im too tired/lazy at the moment to go count.

[Gray113]

As Dorgoth said there are enough Mesons being used for tactical deployments in Sol. Using these to blow up nodes allows the TEVs time to focus their strength in defensive positions rather than being overwhelmed - even if the Shivans find other nodes to traverse they will be slowed down and it is not as though the TEVs will be trying to reclaim systems from Juggernaut fleets.

Plus nodes can be rebuilt, now that the Sol gate is active they can futher refine this technology for use elsewhere at a time when the Shivans can be defeated.(very long term)

[Luis Dias]

I don't really get Matth's reasoning here. It has been canon since FS2 that meson-bombing the nodes is the only proven solution GTVA has in its armory against shivaggedon, it stands to reason that making meson fireships designed specifically to meson-bomb the nodes should become top priority in *any* "Threat Emergency Initiative", much more than designing and building a new fleet of destroyers and carriers, as these will always fail to counter a fleet of sathanas juggernaughts.

Any doubts about whether if these meson fireships may fail their missions or not is academic fillibustering at best, since we all know that if there's a new Shivan invasion, any other tactic has absolutely failed so far (and will again, given the BPverse canon). In that sense, "wasting" fireships is a lot less silly and irrational than "wasting" Raynors and Titans (and hundreds of thousand of lives).

Of course, BP GTVA might have new ideas on how to slow down the Shivans, but that will be a BP novelty that we cannot comment before we get to see it.

e: also:

2) It's not a matter of how many ships you have to fit them with meson bombs, it's a matter of how many meson bombs you can produce to fit them in the ships.

In FS2, despite the technology being brand new, they were able to build and get dozens of meson bombs inside empty Orions within days. Now you are implying that within 30+ years of development of new techs and weapons, the GTVA was incapable of building up ten times this amount - and we are talking about the only kind of contingency that saved them from hell so far.

BP writers are free to write anything, of course. They can say that meson bombs used in FS2 practically emptied their reserves of antimatter that were gathered through dozens of years and that they are so expensive to produce that the Tevs thought it would be wiser to spend ten times its cost in the Sol gate so they could just steal Sol's reserves of it. I'll facepalm a bit, but then, what story doesn't have its quirks?

[-Norbert-]

I don't really get Matth's reasoning here. It has been canon since FS2 that meson-bombing the nodes is the only proven solution GTVA has in its armory against shivaggedon, [...]

I'm not so sure about that.
While I agree with most of your post, there is one thing I'd like to point out.
We don't know if the Shivans ever tried to get ouf of Capella and further into GTVA terretory, with the exception of the few ships that attacked the Bastion, but those can hardly be called a serious attack force.

So while severing the nodes sure has the best chance of stopping the Shivans, it can't be taken for granted.

Also as far as availability of meson technology goes. In addition to the points Luis Dias already mentioned, remember that all the TEI cap-ships run with meson reactors. That would indicate that the GTVA can quite easily build new meson-based equipment, which would include the bombs.