[Nuke]

to be fair, european porn is really bad. especially french or german porn.

[Phantom Hoover]

guys fix the delete button plx

[el_magnifico]

"good" == "agrees with battuta"

Which is kind of my point. Here (in the OP) we have a typical case of a small party with an enormous self-righteousness refusing to listen to anyone else. This self-proclaimed feminist legislator wants to control, police and censor media on the basis that SHE AND ONLY SHE knows what is right, what is better for everyone else. It's part of a method of thinking in which the truth, rightness, justice and pretty much any other value our societies hold good, can magically emanate from a person or a group.

Say, you're going to make a law to change some social behaviour. What should you do? Will you assume the other parties have as much right as you do and you have to convince them? Will you assume your stance could use some scrutiny and constructive criticism to improve itself? If you do, you're probably going to push for a law that grants you a part of the media spectrum so that you can talk to people and CONVINCE them of the merits of what you're doing. You're going to TEACH them why gender and sexual depiction in their current state in modern media, is discriminative, treats humans as objects, and is bad for everyone. You're going to communicate and try to foster social debate. You're going to treat the other party's opinions as if they actually (gasp!) mattered.
But why the hell would you do that! You're right already, you absolutely KNOW it! Screw debate! Screw trying to convince the other! We all know it will be more easily solved if we censor things. That has never gone wrong. That has never backfired. NEVER!

Mind you Battuta, despite you trying to kick me out of the thread, I have nothing against you. In fact I AGREE with you (you probably don't remember this, but you were the one who taught me the difference between those, how should I call them? "female supremacist" perhaps? and actual feminism, and that was the day I realized I had been a feminist all along). I just used your post to illustrate my point. And that is, that if you're going to try to change some social behaviour, you're not going to do it with some stupid and authoritarian legislation, claiming yourself to be good and right just because you know it and that's it. You're going to do it with social change, and that requires a far more profound political work than just passing legislation to outlaw a market (porn consumers).

Well, there you have it. Now I've gotten myself involved in this mess. Happy now? Now I'm going to sit and wait for the mob again.

EDIT: Fixed a small grammar mistake.

[Suongadon]

i just realised, my reply was confrontational without actually explaining anything, which is precisely what i was having a go at you and suoangdon for

You mean like the same as the posts (we) quoted?

[TwentyPercentCooler]

Okay, if some militant feminist movement wants to ban porn, then I'm forming a movement to ban ****ty romance novels like 50 Shades of Gray that are just thinly-disguised porn for women. Such poorly-written tripe offends my delicate, flowery sensibilities and presents an unrealistic and unhealthy standard to which men much adhere.

The sad thing is that I'm really only half-joking.

[Phantom Hoover]

i just realised, my reply was confrontational without actually explaining anything, which is precisely what i was having a go at you and suoangdon for

You mean like the same as the posts (we) quoted?

er no they did actually bother saying something substantive, rather than just condescending

[The E]

Yes. But they didn't talk while I was eating my popcorn. They wouldn't entertain me...

You want to be entertained when you're eating popcorn!

But the popcorn was tasty. And I listened to the popcorn song too. Years and years and years since I've listened to that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjxNnqTcHhg

Still enjoyable

For excessive ****posting, you will be getting a few days off.

[swashmebuckle]

It's yet another slap in the face to the EU's hard ****ing sex workers. Hard working sex wor...uh, people. Prostidudes.

Come on Europe, don't let the prudes rally! Onward and upward! And downward! And upward!

[Luis Dias]

And me thinking a few years ago we were on the path to regulate / legalize prostitution and drugs and so on. Tough luck! All I've seen the past decade is a stream of further oppression and ignorant conservatism in regards to what should be legal and what not. We are creating an army of small (and not so small) "prohibitions" in every corner of our culture, but still somehow believe we are in a "free society". Is this the kind of **** we are trying to protect from the so-called medieval ideologies from the third world countries?

This is the liberal project eating itself up, surrendering itself by itself without the need of its fascistic enemies to even start shooting. Forbid everything! Only then we can become truly free and happy!

I have to puke, brb.

[Mars]

In all seriousness, it looks like a proposal that's unlikely to pass and would be very difficult to enforce. Most reporting on it has been done by British tabloids from what I can find.

[Dragon]

yeah man, social repression of sexuality started with, has stayed with and will end with christianity

It's not that it started with it, but Christianity made it popular and introduced it to the world. Neither Judaism nor Islam were ever as widespread, and I think that they'd be viewed as weird if the rest of the world didn't had similar nudity taboos (some African tribes are already laughing as us for making a big deal out of exposed breasts). For the majority of people in the world (and the entirety of EU, which we're talking about), nudity taboo can be tracked back to Christanity. We've not discussing middle or far east (where things went differently) in this particular thread.
Also it doesn't have to end with Christianity, though if we start getting over religious superstitions like this one, it (along with other religions) might not last long after that.

In all seriousness, it looks like a proposal that's unlikely to pass and would be very difficult to enforce. Most reporting on it has been done by British tabloids from what I can find.

Yeah. The majority of europarliment is still composed of men. Not to mention people always find a way around those bans.

[Luis Dias]

yeah man, social repression of sexuality started with, has stayed with and will end with christianity

It's not that it started with it, but Christianity made it popular and introduced it to the world. Neither Judaism nor Islam were ever as widespread, and I think that they'd be viewed as weird if the rest of the world didn't had similar nudity taboos (some African tribes are already laughing as us for making a big deal out of exposed breasts). For the majority of people in the world (and the entirety of EU, which we're talking about), nudity taboo can be tracked back to Christanity. We've not discussing middle or far east (where things went differently) in this particular thread.
Also it doesn't have to end with Christianity, though if we start getting over religious superstitions like this one, it (along with other religions) might not last long after that.

Puritanism has evolved way beyond christianity and other religions. It has created deep roots in many western (and middle-eastern) minds already.

[Phantom Hoover]

yeah man, social repression of sexuality started with, has stayed with and will end with christianity

It's not that it started with it, but Christianity made it popular and introduced it to the world. Neither Judaism nor Islam were ever as widespread, and I think that they'd be viewed as weird if the rest of the world didn't had similar nudity taboos (some African tribes are already laughing as us for making a big deal out of exposed breasts). For the majority of people in the world (and the entirety of EU, which we're talking about), nudity taboo can be tracked back to Christanity. We've not discussing middle or far east (where things went differently) in this particular thread.
Also it doesn't have to end with Christianity, though if we start getting over religious superstitions like this one, it (along with other religions) might not last long after that.

and yet the japanese, with very little christian cultural influence (and a highly secular society), have somehow managed to become more sexually repressed than any western nation

[Dragon]

and yet the japanese, with very little christian cultural influence (and a highly secular society), have somehow managed to become more sexually repressed than any western nation

As I mentioned, far east has a different problem altogether. We're talking EU here, not Japan or China. While it'd be really interesting to see how did their sexual repressions came into being, it'd open a whole different can of worms. It's not even the same kind of sexual repression we see in the west, matters like that are treated very differently around there (for example, homosexuality isn't that big of a deal).

Puritanism has evolved way beyond christianity and other religions. It has created deep roots in many western (and middle-eastern) minds already.

Indeed, but religion is still the most common way it spreads, as well as a common justification. Without religion and it's rules, you'd be hard pressed to come up with a viable answer to a question like "Why a woman exposing her breasts is immoral?" or the like. I know nudity taboo and sexual repression is coded into the basic rules of society, but it's still illogical.

[Luis Dias]

Without religion and it's rules, you'd be hard pressed to come up with a viable answer to a question like "Why a woman exposing her breasts is immoral?" or the like. I know nudity taboo and sexual repression is coded into the basic rules of society, but it's still illogical.

You might find it really cool to have girls exposing their bodies and so on. For what is worth, I consider the "taboo" of dressing properly one of the highest forms of public health measures we have ever come up with. And by "health" I mean "protecting our eyes from hazard exposures of ghastly sights".

I disagree with your notion that these taboos and repressions are religiously justified, at least in Europe. They are, ironically, justified using naturalistic justifications (homossexuality isn't the "natural way" of doing things), pure disgust, fear of blatant nihillism creeping in, etc. Cultures are much more intrinsic than religion.

[Spoon]

Kartika Liotard, a Dutch left-wing feminist MEP, is seeking "statutory measures to prevent any form of pornography in the media and in advertising and for a ban on advertising for pornographic products and sex tourism", including measures in the "digital field".

Dutch left winged politics is absolutely stuffed with crazy people. (whereas the right wing is full with meanies)

Also Dragon, you are saying dumb things.

[Black Wolf]

Kartika Liotard, a Dutch left-wing feminist MEP, is seeking "statutory measures to prevent any form of pornography in the media and in advertising and for a ban on advertising for pornographic products and sex tourism", including measures in the "digital field".

Dutch left winged politics is absolutely stuffed with crazy people. (whereas the right wing is full with meanies)

Also Dragon, you are dumb.

Do you want to rethink that by any chance, spoon?

**** me but this is a nasty, unpleasant little thread. As a direct result, Dilmah is on the watch list, Lorric is tempbanned,  and now we have spoon ad homming dragon. Can we or can we not discuss this topic like adults?

[Spoon]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[Apollo]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

Dude, you're being sarcastic to a mod. That's probably not the best idea you've ever had.

[Spoon]

Dude, you're being sarcastic to a mod. That's probably not the best idea you've ever had.

Or am I?
Prove it.