Author Topic: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling  (Read 3461 times)

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Offline Apollo

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Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
This will be short because it's very simple.

FreeSpace 2's damage scaling makes it impossible for light weaponry to destroy ships with the "big damage" flag. Adding a "huge" flag to a weapon will solve this problem, but then the AI won't use it against fighters! Fortunately, there is a solution.

By giving a weapon $Substitute with an period of 1, you can replace all of its shots with another weapon. This is significant because it allows small ships to utilize weapons with the "big ship" flag. It can also be used to bypass engine restrictions so that the AI will target fighters with "huge" weapons.

Either of these flags allow a weapon to destroy warships with the "big damage" flag.

Ignore this crap. It's wrong and AI fighters will fire huge primaries without any extra measures.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 01:42:25 pm by Apollo »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass damage scaling
Here I was thinking you'd written an arduous tutorial on how to bypass the phantom system that reduces player damage compared to wingmen.

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass damage scaling
Here I was thinking you'd written an arduous tutorial on how to bypass the phantom system that reduces player damage compared to wingmen.

Different kind of damage scaling. :P

Title changed to be more specific.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
Ironically the other one is about damage to capships too  ;7

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
Ironically the other one is about damage to capships too  ;7

are you kidding me
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Offline BritishShivans

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
No, he isn't, there's this annoying bug that pops up sometimes that reduces player damage like he just said

I haven't encountered it much myself but when it does it's actually quite annoying. I haven't encountered various degrees of it: it's not much but it's pretty noticeable when you're trying to kill bombers like the SB Seraphim and SB Nephilims.

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
That sounds highly irritating.
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Offline Qent

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ai_profiles.tbl#.24disable_weapon_damage_scaling_for_player%3A doesn't seem like it should need much of a tutorial.

But against Seraphim? How does that work?

On topic: that method is pretty cool. Without it I would have added a shockwave.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 08:35:07 am by Qent »

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
That solution affects all player weapons. This one only affects specific weapons, allowing for greater control.
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Offline Qent

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
They are completely separate issues. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76608.0 is, I think, what Battuta was referring to, and only applies to non-huge weapons.

This is significant because it allows small ships to utilize weapons with the "big ship" flag. It can also be used to bypass engine restrictions so that the AI will target fighters with "huge" weapons.

Either of these flags allow a weapon to destroy warships with the "big damage" flag.
Either one? I didn't know that.

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
They are completely separate issues. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76608.0 is, I think, what Battuta was referring to, and only applies to non-huge weapons.

Oh, that bug.

Should have though of that.

Quote
This is significant because it allows small ships to utilize weapons with the "big ship" flag. It can also be used to bypass engine restrictions so that the AI will target fighters with "huge" weapons.

Either of these flags allow a weapon to destroy warships with the "big damage" flag.
Either one? I didn't know that.

One of the many things I discovered through balance testing.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
No, he isn't, there's this annoying bug that pops up sometimes that reduces player damage like he just said

I haven't encountered it much myself but when it does it's actually quite annoying. I haven't encountered various degrees of it: it's not much but it's pretty noticeable when you're trying to kill bombers like the SB Seraphim and SB Nephilims.

It's not a bug and I think it's specifically vs. capships.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?

That flag appears to be broken. The AI will still target fighters with it, and it inflicts very little damage against "big damage" ships (as in, 4 banks with x64 time compression will take a very long time to do any significant damage). This becomes harder and harder the more damaged it is, until it eventually stops at 10 percent hull integrity.

EDIT: Bear in mind that I tested that with a nightly.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 10:59:13 pm by Apollo »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?

That flag appears to be broken. The AI will still target fighters with it, and it inflicts very little damage against "big damage" ships (as in, 4 banks with x64 time compression will take a very long time to do any significant damage). This becomes harder and harder the more damaged it is, until it eventually stops at 10 percent hull integrity.

EDIT: Bear in mind that I tested that with a nightly.

It's purely a targeting flag, it doesn't do anything about damage. But damn, that flag is not supposed to be broken - it was added in to make the Archer in BP2 work.

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?

That flag appears to be broken. The AI will still target fighters with it, and it inflicts very little damage against "big damage" ships (as in, 4 banks with x64 time compression will take a very long time to do any significant damage). This becomes harder and harder the more damaged it is, until it eventually stops at 10 percent hull integrity.

EDIT: Bear in mind that I tested that with a nightly.

It's purely a targeting flag, it doesn't do anything about damage. But damn, that flag is not supposed to be broken - it was added in to make the Archer in BP2 work.

Well, there's some chance that it was an issue with that nightly.

Why'd you need that? The Archer already has the "huge" flag.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?

That flag appears to be broken. The AI will still target fighters with it, and it inflicts very little damage against "big damage" ships (as in, 4 banks with x64 time compression will take a very long time to do any significant damage). This becomes harder and harder the more damaged it is, until it eventually stops at 10 percent hull integrity.

EDIT: Bear in mind that I tested that with a nightly.

It's purely a targeting flag, it doesn't do anything about damage. But damn, that flag is not supposed to be broken - it was added in to make the Archer in BP2 work.

Well, there's some chance that it was an issue with that nightly.

Why'd you need that? The Archer already has the "huge" flag.

The AI is happy to fire huge-flagged primary weapons at fighters. You need something to restrict that behavior.

 

Offline bigchunk1

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
Why not just add a +nocreate table that removes the "big damage" flag from all the ships?

Could be easier than making a whole bunch of substitute weapons.
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Offline Apollo

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?

That flag appears to be broken. The AI will still target fighters with it, and it inflicts very little damage against "big damage" ships (as in, 4 banks with x64 time compression will take a very long time to do any significant damage). This becomes harder and harder the more damaged it is, until it eventually stops at 10 percent hull integrity.

EDIT: Bear in mind that I tested that with a nightly.

It's purely a targeting flag, it doesn't do anything about damage. But damn, that flag is not supposed to be broken - it was added in to make the Archer in BP2 work.

Well, there's some chance that it was an issue with that nightly.

Why'd you need that? The Archer already has the "huge" flag.

The AI is happy to fire huge-flagged primary weapons at fighters. You need something to restrict that behavior.

Oh for the love of god...

Why can't the wiki have accurate descriptions of flags? Is that really too much to ask for?

Well, that makes this fix pointless for primaries.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Tutorial: How to bypass FS's capship damage scaling
As I recollect the AI was more than happy to shoot Archers and Redeemers at fighters. Maybe I'm wrong though! We certainly coded in that flag for some reason.