Author Topic: Asset arguing (split from Celebration of FS)  (Read 4290 times)

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Offline MatthTheGeek

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Asset arguing (split from Celebration of FS)
Hoarding assets = evil.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 01:45:16 am by Mongoose »
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 
While I don't feel as strongly about it as Matth, you probably should release your assets publicly ASAP.  If you feel the appeal of your campaign is really hinging on having never-before-seen assets, you should probably try and work on your gameplay and story in lieu of asset creation.  Age of Aquarius didn't need a brand new fleet to rock HLP's socks off, you know. :P
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Nyctaeus

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While I don't feel as strongly about it as Matth, you probably should release your assets publicly ASAP.  If you feel the appeal of your campaign is really hinging on having never-before-seen assets, you should probably try and work on your gameplay and story in lieu of asset creation.  Age of Aquarius didn't need a brand new fleet to rock HLP's socks off, you know. :P
That's why I'm including only a few unique ships in mods I'm releasing and they are mostly the most important ships in the storyline. 95% of models I'm using are released ones altered, bugfixed etc and they are known, but I'm leaving a few exclusive to be associated with the mod after release, like Solaris from War in Heaven, Nemesis and Gigas from Inferno, Nephelai from Shadow Genesis etc. In fact Stratcomm's fleet is colligated always wich AoA, even if these ships were made for other purposes. I want to be sure that models we made especialy for my mod won't be used by anyone before release, and models will be coligated with this specified mod. Ofc. milions of exclusive models kept in neverending proces of mod making... It's like a crime :P. Just like BWO and Inferno did.
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Offline Droid803

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Actually it doesn't matter which mod it appears in first. I used Steve-o's fighters in a mod before WiH released and everyone still thinks they're UEF fighters, because the mod I made with them was stupid and bad.

So, by trying to "force" the association it only means that you think your mod is going to be mediocre and not memorable enough, or you're afraid of people making something better before you're done. And in the end, even that won't matter if someone comes around and does make something better after you're done people will remember the asset's role more in the better mod.

Stop trying to play this pointless game people, and free-release your assets. When BP ends up using it your mod will be forgotten anyway :P
Don't fight it, it's futile.
(´・ω・`)
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Offline General Battuta

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Droid's right, having the ship is pointless - using it well is all that matters. Everybody remembers the Generation from Transcend, even though it was just a stock Deimos.

Just dump everything public when it's ready to roll. It's worked great so far and it helps everybody else out - think of how many projects Inferno jumpstarted with their asset releases. We're all in this together.

e: Of course you're free to handle things as you please, this is just my impression on what's been best both for projects and the community so far. Everybody wins.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 05:58:10 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Lorric

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk1qVgNevz8#t=0m21s

The Tychicus is a beefed up Strike Cannon from Colony Wars!  :D

On the release immediately/release with everything debate, I have no strong feelings. But I wonder what people do more often, hold stuff until release, or release stuff as soon as they make them?

Also, do people get any hassle who don't release immediately, but no one knows it exists until it arrives with the mod?

 

Offline An4ximandros

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 Funnily enough, Blue Planet resembles the behavior of the Vishnans by seeking to absorb released HQ ships.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Funnily enough, Blue Planet resembles the behavior of the Vishnans by seeking to absorb released HQ ships.

A bad analogy, since these are non-zero-sum transactions. Using an asset doesn't decrease anyone else's ability to get utility out of it.

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Not this debate again. :rolleyes: It's Betrayal's model, he and his team did the work, and so keeping it exclusive for the sake of establishing association is entirely legit. Complaining about it and trying to pressure him into releasing it only makes you guys look spoiled and entitled (Cue "We're not trying to pressure him..."  from people who don't understand what pressure means).
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Offline General Battuta

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Not that interpretation of this debate again.  :rolleyes: Keeping it exclusive for the sake of establishing association doesn't work, and giving opinions with clear caveats that he can manage it however he likes only makes us look like people with the best interests of the community in mind and an eye for what's worked out so far.

e: guess I forgot to work in some kind of goofy ad hominem but :effort:; a better way to handle this bilaterally would just be to present the general case for hanging on to the model and recognize that Betrayal has every right to pick what he'd prefer to do. It's just one ship.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 08:22:27 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Black Wolf

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...and giving opinions with clear caveats that he can manage it however he likes...

Hoarding assets = evil.
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 

Offline General Battuta

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I am perfectly in agreement with you that Matth could use a lot of work on nuance - I am not particularly fond of this kind of talk coming from someone with a BP badge - but Matth is 1/4 of this discussion, and 'you guys' is plural.

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Specifics of wording aside, I'm sure Betrayal had seen the arguments on both sides before he made his decision (they come up often enough, but if you hadn't, Betrayal, let me know and I'll admit I was wrong). We surely don;t need to keep rehashing them every time someone shows off an exclusive asset.
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 

Offline Fury

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Seriously BP guys, get off your high horses. I am ashamed of your actions in this topic just now.

Betrayal already stated that he's using already publicly available assets for almost everything and the few exceptions will be released along with the mod. He's perfectly entitled to do that considering the effort he (and his team where/if applicable) have put on those assets. What is important, is that the assets will be available eventually. Pressuring him to release them now should be beneath you.

Or should I remind you that the UED Solaris made by esarai was pretty much exclusive asset of BP2, as the other mod never made an actual release. Besides as you should be aware, development of mods tends to keep up right up to release of the mod. Why should he be forced to release something that may yet see much improvement between now and release of his mod?

Or do you feel like our community is so threatened by this that we can't wait for such time as to when Betrayal feels he's mod is ready enough to be released? Now think very carefully what you want to constitute here as hoarding of exclusive assets. As of now, Betrayal is an active modder working on mod(s) that at least on glance, seem to be well on their way towards finishing line. By all means suggest that he could release his exclusive assets sooner rather than later. But don't dogpile on him and most of all, don't use offensive or condescending tone when doing so. That is far bigger risk to this community than hoarding of assets.

 

Offline General Battuta

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The Solaris was released literally the instant it was done. You're jumping at shadows here - people have presented a case for a (really good, mutually beneficial) way of handling assets that's helped lift this community out of a pretty difficult period. You're getting pretty worked up here.

 

Offline headdie

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All right guys time to step away and take a deep breath, this is getting a little heated for my tastes in a thread like this.

while hoarding assets is less than ideal for the majority of mod makers, the timing of release is a right that those involved in it's creation have to be exercised as they feel appropriate and choosing a later date makes them no lesser people.

edit

strike through as no longer relevant due to split
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 01:55:20 am by headdie »
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Offline General Battuta

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It'll get split out anyway. What's important to me here is just pointing out that, historically, using an asset first has never been as important as using it well - which brings me back to what I've always tried to drive home here, that this is not a zero-sum game, that we're all better off focusing on cooperation to make better material, that anyone with the time to learn to FRED and a few good ideas can make a first-rate product.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Or do you feel like our community is so threatened by this that we can't wait for such time as to when Betrayal feels he's mod is ready enough to be released?
Who speaks about threatened ? What this tangent has shown so far is that there are enough people who care about the problem to discuss about it. Are you afraid of discussion ?

Why should he be forced to release something that may yet see much improvement between now and release of his mod?
If you're thinking waiting until an asset is done, and hoarding it until the mod is done, are the same thing, then you have no idea what you're talking about. Betrayal has clearly stated he was doing the latter, so this point is as moot as it gets.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Asset arguing (split from Celebration of FS)
I really am not fond of the approach of berating people for their decisions. Presenting the advantages and letting people choose on their own is a better way to handle it.

 

Offline BritishShivans

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Re: Asset arguing (split from Celebration of FS)
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh

why

bad thing is done again

bad thing happen now

thread crash into ground, go boom eventually

locking happen and ****storm will be added to

confrontational bads pile up and angry argumentation fight occur

community divide community into community vs community

please do not do the confrontational bads, it helps tribalism spread and make people too angry at each other to want to exchange interesting discussions

do not want to see the bad thing happen  :(

(i'm just really ****ing tired okay, i had a ****ty day too)