[FlamingCobra]

http://news.yahoo.com/2nd-child-pa-couple-dies-only-praying-111713837.html
excerpt:

A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.

Prosecutors said Tuesday that a decision on charges will be made after they get the results of an autopsy.

[An4ximandros]

 I am quickly going to say this: There is a difference between believing in a god and hoping a god will do all the work for you. This couple clearly leans on the latter being true. This is a destructive chain of though.

 Now if you'll excuse me, I need to smack my head in the wall to discharge the rage that's building up.

[BrotherBryon]

I hate to make light of the situation but I have got to ask is there a Darwin award for ensuring your offspring have next to no chance of reaching adulthood?

That being said I have long believed that the fundamentalist Christian movement that is growing in alarming popularity is just as evil as it's Islamic counterpart. Both are text book definitions of what happens when a society allows religious extremism to establish deep roots. Both promote ignorance and stupidity to epidemic proportions creating extremely volatile environments.

[rubixcube]

That being said I have long believed that the fundamentalist Christian movement that is growing in alarming popularity is just as evil as it's Islamic counterpart. Both are text book definitions of what happens when a society allows religious extremism to establish deep roots. Both promote ignorance and stupidity to epidemic proportions creating extremely volatile environments.

Really, where did you get that information from? If anything religion is dying in today's society.

[Klaustrophobia]

That being said I have long believed that the fundamentalist Christian movement that is growing in alarming popularity is just as evil as it's Islamic counterpart. Both are text book definitions of what happens when a society allows religious extremism to establish deep roots. Both promote ignorance and stupidity to epidemic proportions creating extremely volatile environments.

did you think about that AT ALL before you posted it, or just go into knee-jerk religion bashing mode?

[BrotherBryon]

It isn't religion as a whole that is the problem it is the extreme forms of it, any way I should not of phrased it that way. Since I have had only 3 hours of sleep in the last 24 I think I'll just chalk it up to exhaustion and stress. Any way back on subject, faith healing is bad.

[deathfun]

****ing Sagittarons

[karajorma]

I hate to make light of the situation but I have got to ask is there a Darwin award for ensuring your offspring have next to no chance of reaching adulthood?

No award when they had 9 children. You can lose a couple and still outproduce the rest of us. Hell, having 7 children end up in care where other people have to look after them is actually a viable reproductive strategy.

[Scourge of Ages]

No award when they had 9 children. You can lose a couple and still outproduce the rest of us. Hell, having 7 children end up in care where other people have to look after them is actually a viable reproductive strategy.

Like one of those lizards that lays its eggs in a birds nest, so the bird hatches the egg and then the baby lizard eats it? Wait, was that just a Simpsons episode?

Oh yeah, some birds just do that too.

EDIT for on-topic-ness: This is just sad and stupid in equal measure. I'm sort of at a loss for words.

[Dark Hunter]

As a Christian myself, I do not understand these kinds of people.

I mean, if you want to believe in faith healing, fine, that's your choice. Personally I've never witnessed a successful case of it, but I'm willing to believe it could happen.

To rely wholly on faith healing and ignore doctors and hospitals completely is idiotic, however.

Let the doctors do their work, and pray for their success and the health of your loved one. Whether they are healed through the doctor's efforts, divine intervention, or some combination thereof, what does it matter so long as they are healed? That's how I see it anyway.

[yuezhi]

i wonder how many of these fundamentalists expect a lazaran miracle to follow.

[BloodEagle]

Both are text book definitions of what happens when a society allows religious extremism to establish deep roots.

How does one disallow religious extremism without disallowing religion to some extent?

[Kopachris]

Both are text book definitions of what happens when a society allows religious extremism to establish deep roots.

How does one disallow religious extremism without disallowing religion to some extent?

Simply cut religious freedom at the point where it involves hurting other people, e.g. through outright bullying (Westboro Baptist style), terrorism (jihad style), or divine neglect (faith healing style).

[Luis Dias]

I'll pray for the parents not getting bullied in prison. I'm 100% certain that will help them.

[Kopachris]

This sermon on the church's website clearly wasn't written by God.  Whoever wrote it doesn't know when not to use a comma.

[Luis Dias]

You know it's stuff like that that really makes me sufficiently mad and angry against all kinds of religious bull****. OTOH, I then remind myself of *all* the other bull**** we as humans are so fond of, and I just go *sigh*.

[Apollo]

That being said I have long believed that the fundamentalist Christian movement that is growing in alarming popularity is just as evil as it's Islamic counterpart. Both are text book definitions of what happens when a society allows religious extremism to establish deep roots. Both promote ignorance and stupidity to epidemic proportions creating extremely volatile environments.

I can agree with most of that, but why do you think it's growing? Our society is becoming more and more secular as time goes on.

EDIT: Although, I will say one thing: at least the Westboro Baptist Church doesn't bomb buildings.

[The E]

Is it though?

The thing is that while society as a whole may be going that way, policy makers certainly aren't. Looking at the american situation from the outside, it seems as if fundamentalist rhetoric finds its way into politics at an increasing rate. I certainly hope that this is not an accurate reflection of the actual reality, but it's really hard to tell.

Also note that fundamentalists (on both sides of the equation) are usually much more willing to spread their message, and much more obnoxious in doing so, so they kinda dominate the discussion even if the position they take is not shared by the majority.

Another thing to consider is that our society is living in a state of future shock; Our world changes so rapidly that a desire for simpler times and simpler rules is completely understandable.

[Luis Dias]

Yeah, but that's mainly America and it's not even quite accurate. USA is getting more and more secular if we go by sheer population. What happens in politicland is that the majorities required for having power are too dependent on lesser populated, and coincidentally, more religiously, conservative driven states. This assymetry is annoying a lot of americans already, but if we try to lean back and attempt a birds-eye-view of the situation, we would see many things:

- That the rate of americans calling themselves non-religiously affiliated (which is what matters) has been rising from less than 10% just 20 years ago to more than 20% now (and the stats for the younger generation is overwhelming);
- That the religious conservative movement is rather "young" politically (started up with the Reagan election), but many people are ****ing tired of their shenanigans already;
- That 20 years ago you'd have an american president proclaiming that atheists were not to be considered citizens and have no backlash whatsoever, while today's president acknowledges non-religious in his statements.

We can argue whether if the "new-atheists"' arguments are good or bad or whatever, but the movement has made a serious dent in the younger generations, and so I'm quite positive that the next generation of americans will vote overwhelmingly for a secular nation in all respects.

[Mars]

Yeah, but that's mainly America and it's not even quite accurate. USA is getting more and more secular if we go by sheer population. What happens in politicland is that the majorities required for having power are too dependent on lesser populated, and coincidentally, more religiously, conservative driven states. This assymetry is annoying a lot of americans already, but if we try to lean back and attempt a birds-eye-view of the situation, we would see many things:

- That the rate of americans calling themselves non-religiously affiliated (which is what matters) has been rising from less than 10% just 20 years ago to more than 20% now (and the stats for the younger generation is overwhelming);
- That the religious conservative movement is rather "young" politically (started up with the Reagan election), but many people are ****ing tired of their shenanigans already;
- That 20 years ago you'd have an american president proclaiming that atheists were not to be considered citizens and have no backlash whatsoever, while today's president acknowledges non-religious in his statements.

We can argue whether if the "new-atheists"' arguments are good or bad or whatever, but the movement has made a serious dent in the younger generations, and so I'm quite positive that the next generation of americans will vote overwhelmingly for a secular nation in all respects.

It really depends on what state you're in, to be honest. Even with a quarter "unaffiliated" population, my own state of Colorado occasionally feels the need to do something stupid, like a public prayer. That is, in all honesty, becoming less common.

EDIT: What I'm saying is that how religious the policy that is in power in the US is largely local, the Feds are probably less religious than almost any state. Simply looking at them would ignore where the biggest problems lie.