Author Topic: [RELEASE] - PVI Abydos (Prev. Question for FREDders and modders)  (Read 4627 times)

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Offline Black Wolf

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[RELEASE] - PVI Abydos (Prev. Question for FREDders and modders)
GVI/PVI ABYDOS RELEASED - See BELOW.

So, most of you have probably had a play with or at least seen one or more of my small Terran installations. They follow a pretty consistent pattern - they're small, they're civilian oriented and, with one semi exception, they're unarmed. Now, I make them that way because it feels, to me, more realistic that civilian equipment would be unarmed - you don't generally see 50 cals mounted on oil rigs, after all. However, my question to you guys (specifically to anyone who's FREDded with one of my stations  is this - do you find that the lack of turrets limits what you can do, mission-wise, with the model? Or does it not matter for civilian stations?

The reason I ask is because I'm working on a Vasudan addition to the collection (Imagebin WiP) which, unusually among my mods, I actually have no direct use for, and so its not having to fit into any predetermined role or mission. As such, I want to build it to be maximally useful to as many people as possible. There are 12 little untextured  recessions in the ring which would be suited to turrets - they were originally going to be greeble sites. So, I throw the question open to you guys: Small stations - should they be armed or do they not need to be?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 09:50:16 am by Black Wolf »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations.
Definitely give it a few turrets. It adds massive flexibility at no cost (since it's really easy to remove or disable them). With turrets available for the FREDder to stick AAA beams or point defense weapons or countermeasure launchers into, the installation can be used as a picket, a covert research facility, a missile battery - pretty much anything.

The other civilian installations should probably get some too, even if they're empty or disabled in the table by default. 'Realistically' speaking, most oil rigs do have defensive systems of some kind, even if it's usually just on-board security or a monitoring system. The FreeSpace analogy (in a world where homicidal asteroids seek out and attack passing shipping) would be anti-debris weapons; and of course if this is spaceborne infrastructure I don't think there's any time post-Vasudan contact that even civilians wouldn't want some form of antifighter defense.

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations.
Eeeeeverything that man just said.

As well, armed stations could be military variants!

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations.
Definitely give it a few turrets. It adds massive flexibility at no cost (since it's really easy to remove or disable them). With turrets available for the FREDder to stick AAA beams or point defense weapons or countermeasure launchers into, the installation can be used as a picket, a covert research facility, a missile battery - pretty much anything.

The other civilian installations should probably get some too, even if they're empty or disabled in the table by default. 'Realistically' speaking, most oil rigs do have defensive systems of some kind, even if it's usually just on-board security or a monitoring system. The FreeSpace analogy (in a world where homicidal asteroids seek out and attack passing shipping) would be anti-debris weapons; and of course if this is spaceborne infrastructure I don't think there's any time post-Vasudan contact that even civilians wouldn't want some form of antifighter defense.

Well, TBH I'm not really interested in revisiting the existing stuff - it is what it is and I don't think it needs adjusting (not that that means I'd be opposed to other people adding turrets and whatnot, it just doesn't interest me as a project). As I said though, this Vasudan one is a special case.

The only issue with adding/removing turrets is the AO Bake, really, and that can be minimized by simply not including them in the AO, I guess, although that's less pretty. I'm fairly strongly opposed to "empty" turrets though - if it looks like a turret it should be a turret - no need to irritate players by having them shooting at turrets-but-not-turrets.

As far as this particular model goes, I think I probably will turret it - if for no other reason than those recesses will look odd if they're not filled with some kind of geometry. But it's good to hear any other opinions for future projects - I have a (probably) fourth and final unarmed Terran civvy outpost that's currently stalled while I gather up the motivation to finish increasing the greebling on some components and re-UV it - whether or not that ultimately gets armed will be an open question for a future date.
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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations.
P3d of the ongoing station work if anyone's interested: http://p3d.in/sx8Qs

Also has a name now - Abydos
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 01:18:11 pm by Black Wolf »
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Offline headdie

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations. + G/PVI Abydos
for my perspective in the real world any attack has to approach at a limted velocity with government detection systems able to track everything for several minutes or more before they strike offering a responce buffer.  In the Freespace universe we have a transit system which allows attackers to strike with little or no warning right on top of the target greatly increasing the deficit between attack detection and defender response to the point where a determined attack can cause critical damage, and if fighter based depart, before a response can realistically leave the hanger.

this key difference to me means that at least a token defense is needed if only to stall aggressive actions until help can arrive
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations. + G/PVI Abydos
Looks like a good compliment to the Karnak.  :yes:
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Offline Macfie

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations.
Also has a name now - Abydos

Abydos, isn't that the name of a Typhon class detroyer in Pandora's Box?
Normal people believe that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it isn't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations. + G/PVI Abydos
The way I see it (from a technical point of view)- deleting a turret takes just 15 seconds- 5 seconds to delete it in PCS, 5 seconds to click on Notepad, and 5 seconds to disable the turret's .tbl entry.

If someone wants an unarmed base, it's just a few clicks away from it; if someone wants more turrets- the existing ones can be copied and moved around; but importing a turret might be a bit more of a hassle (import turret model, textures, rescale to fit the ship model, etc).

As such I suggest putting a couple to fill out empty space, to make it easier for other modders if they need to play around with the numbers and placements of turrets.

In fact if I ever make a 2nd iteration of T-M ships, the turret barbettes will all be separate subobjects from the main hull for easier (re)moving.

From an in game perspective- I'm quite sure the Elysium is used for civilian purposes and it does have a turret; guess that's the FreeSpace way of doing business- somewhere in the timeline a lawyer decided that the 2nd Amendment applies to space ships.
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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations. + G/PVI Abydos
OK, well, the general feedback here and on IRC seems pretty consistent, so I'll probably arm (at least nominally) most of my future installations, unless there's a good reason not to. I certainly will arm the Abydos - I may even just go nuts with the armament and let people pull off the turrets as they see fit.

Also has a name now - Abydos

Abydos, isn't that the name of a Typhon class detroyer in Pandora's Box?

Possibly. I'm not sure, but reusing names has never really been an issue, especially when we're talking about going from the name of a specific ship to the name of a class, and a different class to boot. While I wouldn't want to call my new station the GVI Cheops, because of the obvious clash, I don't think people will get confused in this case.

More shots of the ever-inching-forward texture. Just need to decide what to do with the pylons now.
Imagebin
Imagebin 2
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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations. + G/PVI Abydos
Finished the LoD0 textures last night, although I may still have to make changes if I decide to add some greebles here and there. Turrets, LoD1 and debris are on tonight's to-do list. Theoretically, I might have this thing finished by the end of the week.
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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations. + G/PVI Abydos
So, this is coming together super-fast, by my standards.

Imagebin & Imagebin2

Still need to do shinemaps and turret it, which might take awhile...now that everyone's all pro turrets, I kind of want to put a great big multipart onto this thing, which I'll need to design, build, UV and texture. Nobody to blame but yourselves :p
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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations. + G/PVI Abydos
It will give the designer who knows basic PCS a lot more flexibility, we don't feel guilty here. :P
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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations. + G/PVI Abydos
Bah. Turrets and -destroyed submodels are in. Still needs a shine/normal map, a proper table entry and pofdata. Things are going better than expected, but I still want to see the end of this project for some reason - it's not as fun as it should be. So in other words, if anyone has anything they don't like when it's finished, they can fix it themselves. :D
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Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Question for FREDders and modders re: installations. + G/PVI Abydos
So in other words, if anyone has anything they don't like when it's finished, they can fix it themselves. :D

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Offline Black Wolf

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RELEASED: DOWNLOAD HERE | WIKI

FS1 Era Description
The PVI Abydos is a smaller class of Vasudan space station that appears to be related in some manner to the much larger Karnak Class. Despite measuring less than 350m in diameter, the Abydos is remarkably well armed, with twelve anti-fighter plasma turrets arranged around its external ring, and a single, powerful anti-capital turret at the base of its central core. This asymmetric weapon arrangement, and the lack of a fighterbay, leaves the station vulnerable to cruiser assault, and as such they are rarely left unguarded by the PVN.

FS2 Era Description
The GVI Abydos is a small, multi-purpose Vasudan installation with a diverse history of service dating back to the Terran-Vasudan war. Originally developed for deployment in high-risk contested systems, the Abydos soon proved remarkably versatile, and, following the end of the Great War, was re-purposed for both civilian and military use, most famously as dormitory stations in the immediate aftermath of the destruction of Vasuda Prime.

Today, the Abydos is deployed in a number of roles, both civilian and military. The more far more common civilian stations are restricted to plasma weapons, and many are entirely disarmed, while modern combat-equipped variants of the station utilize a unique single burst anti-fighter beam, which produces a high intensity, low duration plasma beam to accommodate the aging reactors limited ability to maintain the high power requirements of more typical multi-shot weapons of this sort. However, these variants are becoming rarer as the Vasudans begin the slow process of replacing many of the aging Abydos with more modern and more capable Memphis-class stations.






So, it's finished, and I'm relatively happy with the final outcome. It all seems to work, anyway, but hopefully it'll get a test out from a few people and they can send some feedback my way. Ended up turreting the crap out of it - 12 turrets around the ring and a big multipart one at the bottom - people can make it as dangerous or as passive as they like. Otherwise it's very basic - one dockpoint, a couple of subsystems, but not fighterbay or integration with the modular kit or anything - just niche filling this time around, really.

So, there we go. Another Vasudan station. Only took, what, a decade or so? No problems. :D Anyway, feedback, as always, is greatly appreciated - extreme praise or extreme hatred, and anything in between. I'm also particularly interested in whether anyone plans to add it to any modpacks. But anyway, have at it.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 10:07:51 am by Black Wolf »
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Offline Cyborg17

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Re: [RELEASE] - PVI Abydos (Prev. Question for FREDders and modders)
Thank you!  :D

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: [RELEASE] - PVI Abydos (Prev. Question for FREDders and modders)
Your FS2 description references a Memphis class.  Are you planning on creating this design as well?
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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: [RELEASE] - PVI Abydos (Prev. Question for FREDders and modders)
Your FS2 description references a Memphis class.  Are you planning on creating this design as well?

Sort of - it's more like an option that I'm keeping open. There were lots of ideas I had that I would have liked to integrate into this model, plus a few ideas Oddgrim suggested over IRC that I didn't have the skill to implement. I'd also like to see a small Vasudan station with a fighterbay, but it's not exactly a near-term project at this point.
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Offline fightermedic

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Re: [RELEASE] - PVI Abydos (Prev. Question for FREDders and modders)
this is an excellent model, great work
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