[Flak]

I wonder what they are trying to pull off. Were they trying to only sell it to some few select customers in developed countries and just ignore the rest of the world as they are 'pirates' anyway? Or perhaps creating some kind of new intelligence gathering network?

[FlamingCobra]

Solution to Kinect: Duct/Electrical tape

[The E]

I wonder what they are trying to pull off. Were they trying to only sell it to some few select customers in developed countries and just ignore the rest of the world as they are 'pirates' anyway? Or perhaps creating some kind of new intelligence gathering network?

Neither, really.

You see, it's a question of corporate culture at play here. Sony is a manufacturer of entertainment electronics, Nintendo is a toymaker, and Microsoft is a software developer. This informs how they present themselves and their products to the world.
Now, the thing is, the people working at MS aren't stupid. But they're also working in a culture that is very engineer-centric, very much focussed on providing other engineers with tools to make products. So when the time came to define the policies for the new Xbox, they were looking at it from that point of view, they reduced the number of possible system configurations by making Kinect a part of the system (Much like Nintendo made motion controls an integral part of the Wii) and they introduced a DRM mechanic that every developer could use and rely on (thus cutting down on engineering complexity for the people that make the games).
Now, as a consequence of that, they had two problems. One, a higher base price due to having to ship more hardware in the box, which they couldn't do anything about without compromising either the hardware or the financial health of the gaming division. Two, a need to build up a dedicated infrastructure to service the new Xbox. There, they had a choice of either providing a worldwide service from the get-go, or to provide a more regionalized but as a consequence more reliable service to a select number of markets. Given past experiences with rolling out always-online DRM implementations across a wide array of markets, they chose to concentrate on select regions.

These are all decisions that, from an engineering standpoint, make total sense. It's only when viewed through the consumer's eyes that the whole thing breaks apart at the seams.

[Black Wolf]

You see, it's a question of corporate culture at play here. Sony is a manufacturer of entertainment electronics, Nintendo is a toymaker, and Microsoft is a software developer. This informs how they present themselves and their products to the world.

That's actually a really good point. It's easy to forget that these three companies - so often lumped together because they are the only real competiors in this market - are fundamentally different in a lot of ways.

Throws a new perspective on a lot of different things thinking of them like that.

[BloodEagle]

Solution to Kinect: Duct/Electrical tape

I recall reading that the new Kinect would brick your system for as long as the camera couldn't detect you.

You might want to verify that, though.  Because I can't remember where I heard it.

[Spoon]

So when the time came to define the policies for the new Xbox, they were looking at it from that point of view, they reduced the number of possible system configurations by making Kinect a part of the system

They didn't seem to have thought about that with the 360. With them selling version with and without harddrives and all that ****...

[Flipside]

I think part of the problem is that, in the current cut-throat environment, companies can over compensate. Various knobs and whistles with regards to rumble-packs, motion sensors and Kinect are all, at their heart, an attempt to find something unique to sell the product on. When something fails, it's not a case of understanding that 'uniqueness' isn't what makes a console good or bad, it's more a case of 'we need a better gimmick'.

[Luis Dias]

Yes, but what has happened here is something really amazing. What happened here and what is driving Microsoftian heads spinning furiously is that while MS attempted to get that "unique" gimmick from Kinect, which is arguably their best mass product technology right now, PS4 got to be "unique" in the sense that it *doesn't* have expensive gimmicks like the Kinect, and chose to beat the Xbox in the price point.

So perhaps MS thought PS4 was going for its own expensive gimmick too. But instead, they made this move and now MS is in trouble.

They can still say that Kinect will be "optional", and drive the price point down again, but they have commited so much in terms of architecture and logistics that I'm afraid it's too late for them to do this.

[Flipside]

Yup, I think that on this occasion Sony read the market best, that people would rather have a cheap base-product and then buy peripherals to taste than have them foisted upon them, because the moment you make a control method part of the system, you are tying down the system. This sort of happened with the Wii, where games which were, in no way, suited to the Wii controller were being written for use with it, which caused a nightmare.

I'll never forget the one time I tried COD or something on the Wii, the control combinations were so whacked out that I couldn't even get past the tutorial mission.

[The E]

Yeah, one of the received wisdoms of the console market is that optional accessories don't really work, so you have to ship everything in the base SKU.

The main problem that I see in MS' strategy with Kinect is that it's tailored to work in a very specific environment (in this case, the main living room of a decently sized house), whereas previous consoles could work wherever you had enough room to place the console, a seat, and a TV. I'm pretty sure that MS' market analysts have concluded that the market segment that has room for an Xbone is also the market segment with the most readily available cash to spend, and so we get a product made for that segment of the population.
It's once more a decision that is completely logical from an engineer's POV.

EDIT:
It seems to me that MS has fallen into the programmer's pitfall of "Let's rewrite this thing". It's somewhat similar to what they were convinced of with Windows 8, where they thought that they had found a new formula, a new paradigm for the future, and tried to get a headstart on the implementation before the other players realized that MS was right. MS has built a machine for ubiquitous broadband net access and mature motion capture control schemes, and a market made up of people who have fond memories of playing stuff on their Wiis; unfortunately for them, that segment is currently rather small.
They tried to innovate in a very conservative business during a recession, they made the wrong choices, and now they're paying for them.

[Luis Dias]

You are right The_E, and I'm probably being too pessimistic about MS's strategy.

From the engineering POV I totally get it. But from the consumer POV, IDK if they are really convinced they need this "kinect" thing. The Wii U also tried to shovel a lot of peripherals down the people's necks and the market didn't like it. Now the Kinect is central to their vision of what media in the living room will be in the next decade, and I understand their decision to make it obligatory....

But I really wonder if FS4's approach isn't going to win bigtime in the market. I think it will, but time will tell.

[Flipside]

It also has to be taken into account that these consoles will be released into a slightly different market to the previous ones, a market where people are a lot less inclined to make large outlays just to have the latest and greatest. Those people will still exist, of course, but I think this time round the market may err towards the cheaper, safer option than the more expensive one with new technologies in it.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Perhaps Microsoft is reinventing the wheel too early. The technology they're showing off is very interesting, but it seems the established gamer base is still more comfortable with older technology, having used it for years.

[General Battuta]

Perhaps Microsoft is reinventing the wheel too early. The technology they're showing off is very interesting, but it seems the established gamer base is still more comfortable with older technology, having used it for years.

I think you're completely misunderstanding why people are angry at Microsoft.

[MatthTheGeek]

I don't think he is. The point was, M$ was kinda betting that those new tech would have enough appeal for people to accept the rest. Turns out it doesn't.

[General Battuta]

The discomfort with the Xbone has very little to do with comfort with older technology.

[JCDNWarrior]

Only able to speak for myself, my main discomfort will always stay with that darn Kinect being a mandatory part of the machine. I really don't like what it does and how it does it as well as how MS claims it's the future while I see a better solution in products like Oculus Rift, in comparison at the least.

I'll be on the fence on the whole 'next gen' choices and offerings, even if PS4 looks rather nice right about now, I've never been one to go Day One on any hardware device, so that should help in judging where everything goes before and after release.

I'm glad that this does seem to have a lot of potential to do good things for PC gaming as well as, at least financially to a certain extent, AMD itself, the x86 architecture, existing consumer electronics chipsets and APUs, it'll be nice to watch what we'll be able to expect from this in the short and long term. It does certainly make me consider to build a small (mini-itx) PC with a similar configuration as the PS4 will offer just to see if a 'steambox' is a valid option in my household.

[Mikes]

I'm glad that this does seem to have a lot of potential to do good things for PC gaming as well as, at least financially to a certain extent, AMD itself, the x86 architecture, existing consumer electronics chipsets and APUs, it'll be nice to watch what we'll be able to expect from this in the short and long term. It does certainly make me consider to build a small (mini-itx) PC with a similar configuration as the PS4 will offer just to see if a 'steambox' is a valid option in my household.

Steambox bundled with Occulus Rift + a couple of games that fully support it....   Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo could pretty much pack in and go home at that point.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Disappointed that Microsoft didn't have the balls to stick to their plan.

[Klaustrophobia]

wat.  you WANTED to be tracked and price gouged?