[Apollo]

Why are rape victims so universally ostracized? It seems like every culture engages in this victim-blaming bull**** and makes excuses for the rapists (she was a slut, she was dressed provocatively, blah blah blah we men can't control ourselves blah blah). Even my country, which is one of the more progressive, stereotypes female rape victims as liars who just want to get money. Male rape victims are disregarded if the rapist was a women (you should have enjoyed it) and laughed at if it was another man.

[Lorric]

I've never understood that either.

[The E]

Why are rape victims so universally ostracized? It seems like every culture engages in this victim-blaming bull**** and makes excuses for the rapists (she was a slut, she was dressed provocatively, blah blah blah we men can't control ourselves blah blah). Even my country, which is one of the more progressive, stereotypes female rape victims as liars who just want to get money. Male rape victims are disregarded if the rapist was a women (you should have enjoyed it) and laughed at if it was another man.

There's a LOT of history during which women were treated as property more than human beings. Modern ideas of equality are really that: Modern. Voting rights for Women are, generally, something that came about during the 20th Century.

There's a lot of societal mechanisms that were built during that time, and our criminal justice systems took rather a long time to get away from the idea that, for example, "all sex in a marriage is consensual". Also note how the number one defense for rapists through the ages has been "Well, she wanted it. Just look at how she dresses!".

Everyday sexism is real. This, this stupid ****ing idea that women who get raped are at least partially to blame, is one of its consequences.

[Apollo]

I've never understood that either.

You know, any man that uses the "I couldn't control myself, she was acting indecently" excuse is basically admitting to being a savage with no handle on his base emotions. Both Christianity and Islam condemn people like that, yet theocracies are often even more hostile towards rape victims than secular societies.

[headdie]

Why are rape victims so universally ostracized? It seems like every culture engages in this victim-blaming bull**** and makes excuses for the rapists (she was a slut, she was dressed provocatively, blah blah blah we men can't control ourselves blah blah). Even my country, which is one of the more progressive, stereotypes female rape victims as liars who just want to get money. Male rape victims are disregarded if the rapist was a women (you should have enjoyed it) and laughed at if it was another man.

There's a LOT of history during which women were treated as property more than human beings. Modern ideas of equality are really that: Modern. Voting rights for Women are, generally, something that came about during the 20th Century.

There's a lot of societal mechanisms that were built during that time, and our criminal justice systems took rather a long time to get away from the idea that, for example, "all sex in a marriage is consensual". Also note how the number one defense for rapists through the ages has been "Well, she wanted it. Just look at how she dresses!".

Everyday sexism is real. This, this stupid ****ing idea that women who get raped are at least partially to blame, is one of its consequences.

indeed forms the basis for rules like a woman should be covered at all times in public as displays of flesh are a temptation/invitation

[Lorric]

I've never understood that either.

You know, any man that uses the "I couldn't control myself, she was acting indecently" excuse is basically admitting to being a savage with no handle on his base emotions. Both Christianity and Islam condemn people like that, yet theocracies are often even more hostile towards rape victims than secular societies.

Oh don't get me started on religions not practicing what they preach, Apollo... 

I wonder if the "I couldn't control myself" thing is ever true? Can people be overwhelmed to that extent?

[Apollo]

Why are rape victims so universally ostracized? It seems like every culture engages in this victim-blaming bull**** and makes excuses for the rapists (she was a slut, she was dressed provocatively, blah blah blah we men can't control ourselves blah blah). Even my country, which is one of the more progressive, stereotypes female rape victims as liars who just want to get money. Male rape victims are disregarded if the rapist was a women (you should have enjoyed it) and laughed at if it was another man.

There's a LOT of history during which women were treated as property more than human beings. Modern ideas of equality are really that: Modern. Voting rights for Women are, generally, something that came about during the 20th Century.

There's a lot of societal mechanisms that were built during that time, and our criminal justice systems took rather a long time to get away from the idea that, for example, "all sex in a marriage is consensual". Also note how the number one defense for rapists through the ages has been "Well, she wanted it. Just look at how she dresses!".

Everyday sexism is real. This, this stupid ****ing idea that women who get raped are at least partially to blame, is one of its consequences.

indeed forms the basis for rules like a woman should be covered at all times in public as displays of flesh are a temptation/invitation

Which in turn implies that any woman who doesn't deserves to be harassed.

You know, any man that uses the "I couldn't control myself, she was acting indecently" excuse is basically admitting to being a savage with no handle on his base emotions. Both Christianity and Islam condemn people like that, yet theocracies are often even more hostile towards rape victims than secular societies.

Oh don't get me started on religions not practicing what they preach, Apollo... 

I wonder if the "I couldn't control myself" thing is ever true? Can people be overwhelmed to that extent?

I guess misogyny is just so entrenched that it twists the religion to be more sexist. While not exactly a model of feminist thought, Islam in its original form was much more equality-minded than what you see in the Arab world.

As for your question, I imagine that nothing short of a physical disorder would make that explanation valid. Certainly, lust alone would not 'force' someone to rape a woman.

[haloboy100]

Male-on-male rape doesn't necessarily mean the rapists were gay. It's about power and humiliation more than anything else.

EDIT: And dehumanization/objectification, too.

I was under the impression that boner from naked men = gay. I guess I gotta look into it some more.

You know, this case can be drawn with interesting implications to western first-world "rape culture"...

[Mikes]

Male-on-male rape doesn't necessarily mean the rapists were gay. It's about power and humiliation more than anything else.

EDIT: And dehumanization/objectification, too.

I was under the impression that boner from naked men = gay. I guess I gotta look into it some more.

You know, this case can be drawn with interesting implications to western first-world "rape culture"...

If you wait long enough anything including inanimate objects and/or sitting around, trying to think of nothing will get you a boner. Doesn't mean a thing except that you are horny.

Being horny doesn't turn anyone into a rapist however. That's just a bull**** excuse a rapist would use to get away with what they did.

[NGTM-1R]

Male-on-male rape doesn't necessarily mean the rapists were gay. It's about power and humiliation more than anything else.

EDIT: And dehumanization/objectification, too.

I was under the impression that boner from naked men = gay.

...you do realize power and sadistic bits give you a boner regardless of what's naked, right? That was kind of the point he made.

[haloboy100]

Wait, people actually get arousal out of that? 

[jg18]

Wait, people actually get arousal out of that? 

EDIT: Sorry, with the new yt tag, I couldn't resist. But yes, some people get off on that.

[NGTM-1R]

Wait, people actually get arousal out of that? 

...how did you spend so long on the internet without being aware there's an entire class of fetishes that are based around power dynamics or at least heavily associated with them?

Yes. Yes they do.

[haloboy100]

Seriously, I thought the reason there were so many jokes about it was because it wasn't possible.

[Dragon]

Wait, people actually get arousal out of that? 

Yes, quite a few. Usually, it takes form of civilized, consensual BDSM. Sometimes though, it takes form of rape. I think it's in no small part due to stigma associated with BDSM, ironically enough. There are probably backwards places where rape is more "socially acceptable" than BDSM. I imagine that, if a fundamentalist priest (no matter of which religion) from a small community heard of one of his parishioners practicing BDSM, he'd preach just about that for the next weak. On the other hand, you've all seen how the same fundamentalists deal with rape.

I wonder if the "I couldn't control myself" thing is ever true? Can people be overwhelmed to that extent?

There are "people" who could, but this is a pretty poor excuse. It can be an explanation, but an important part of what makes us human is the ability to control ourselves. Therefore, I consider such "people" animals, nothing more. I believe they should therefore be treated like any dangerous animal. Homo Sapiens, as you know, means something along the lines of "Wise Man" or "Thinking Man". I've taken to calling animals which don't fit under that name "Homo Insipiens" ("Unwise Man" or "Not-thinking Man" ). Needless to say, I'm not fond of this pest.
I could probably manage a normal conversation with a completely naked woman, even if she was very attractive. Sure, it might be distracting, but that's it. Self control shouldn't be hard for anyone who wants to call him/herself human.

Aside from that, alcohol and drugs, if used in large enough quantities, are really good at reducing even the most intelligent, thinking men to mindless animals. Many rapists are either drunk, drugged, or both. Not an excuse, either, but another reason to use such substances with extreme care.

[CommanderDJ]

Wait, people actually get arousal out of that? 

Yes, quite a few. Usually, it takes form of civilized, consensual BDSM. Sometimes though, it takes form of rape. I think it's in no small part due to stigma associated with BDSM, ironically enough. There are probably backwards places where rape is more "socially acceptable" than BDSM. I imagine that, if a fundamentalist priest (no matter of which religion) from a small community heard of one of his parishioners practicing BDSM, he'd preach just about that for the next weak. On the other hand, you've all seen how the same fundamentalists deal with rape.

I'm going to ask that you provide some sort of evidence to back those accusations up.

[Lorric]

Seriously, I thought the reason there were so many jokes about it was because it wasn't possible.

I mourn the loss of your innocence 

I am partially serious about that.

However, I can't get my head around the idea that if you have this thing, you'll **** anything. Rape victims are usually female and usually pretty. If that is irrelevant, why not pick some homeless guy that no one will care about? Or some animal even, if power is the top factor?

I know some people are aroused by domination, but it's just a sexual preference, is it not? Some are aroused by being dominated.

[Dragon]

It's an entire subculture, and while it's somewhat stigmatized, it's usually very civilized, and as long as everything is consensual, there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm going to ask that you provide some sort of evidence to back those accusations up.

Well, I kind of sat and thought about this. Just ask, why people practice rape instead of BDSM? In both cases, there's domination in play, but one is legal, but the other is not. BDSM should be a logical choice, no? But rape occurs, so there must be a reason. BDSM is considered "perverted" by some, and would most likely be unacceptable to a fundamentalist priest (I've seen a few of such before, it'd be easier to list inventions they don't condemn...), while in case of the rape, well, it's been mentioned already how backwards people react to that. My conclusions were the above, and I might very well be wrong on that.

[haloboy100]

Okay well - I was thinking of dictators getting boners during rallies or something, not like bondage fetishes. The later one I concur is rather obvious after internet experience.

[An4ximandros]

 I read an article a long time ago (which I lost, sadly), which described how (some) rapists of both genders were usually victims themselves who, through a skewed logic (whose details I can't remember), were seeking to destroy the self esteem of someone else to improve theirs. It was an interesting article, such a shame I lost the link.