Author Topic: **** Russia (and Syria too)  (Read 35517 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • 213
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
True dat. Pickle. Hey, here's an idea - perhaps only allow member states to have veto power if they have a proven track record at not backing terrorism or states that sponsor terrorism?
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline An4ximandros

  • 210
  • Transabyssal metastatic event
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
That would essentially invalidate like half the countries on the planet. :P

 

Offline docfu

  • 27
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
True dat. Pickle. Hey, here's an idea - perhaps only allow member states to have veto power if they have a proven track record at not backing terrorism or states that sponsor terrorism?

Well, in that case either everyone or no-one gets it.

The reality is that the VETO is designed to prevent intervention and escalation.

So, if you want to go the terrorism route, even the U.S. has a rather large track record of violating Pakistani airspace to launch drone strikes. That can be viewed as terrorism simply on the basis that every report that comes out of Pakistan seems to include "women and children" in the death toll.

Or, the U.S. proves everyone else has terrorist ties by opening up all of it's NSA surveillance and shows the world who is in bed with whom, but that would also make the U.S. a terrorist simply for the magnitude of information it's collecting on foreign entities, with intent to use that information to destroy those who oppose U.S. interests.

Either way, the VETO has done an amazing job of keeping superpowers from ripping each other to shreds over the last half-century. I see no reason to change it now.

(Yummy, dell pickles!)

 

Offline Black Wolf

  • Twisted Infinities
  • 212
  • Hey! You! Get off-a my cloud!
    • Visit the TI homepage!
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
True dat. Pickle. Hey, here's an idea - perhaps only allow member states to have veto power if they have a proven track record at not backing terrorism or states that sponsor terrorism?

So, that helps the Israe/US situation. how, exactly?
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
True dat. Pickle. Hey, here's an idea - perhaps only allow member states to have veto power if they have a proven track record at not backing terrorism or states that sponsor terrorism?

So not the US then. Given that they funded Bin Laden and did **** all about a whole bunch of Cuban terrorists.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 02:49:19 am by karajorma »
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • 213
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Yeah, it's not an easy situation to figure out. Let's see... the UNSC exists for what reason? To maintain peace? Enforce peace? Not according to the name... it's the Security Council. So what is the purpose then?
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
That would essentially invalidate like half the countries on the planet. :P

It would probably invalidate just about every country except Bhutan.
...
That actually works for me!

Yeah, it's not an easy situation to figure out. Let's see... the UNSC exists for what reason? To maintain peace? Enforce peace? Not according to the name... it's the Security Council. So what is the purpose then?

The same purpose of the UN itself: Prevent World War 2-like situations from happening ever again.
Preferably other war situations too.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Eliminating the veto entirely creates problems with the current UNSC composition rules, since it would theoretically be possible to end up with a security council with progressive democracies outnumbered which could be ugly.  See: continuing existence of Israel.

The best way to reform the veto would be to allow vetoes by 1/3 of the Security Council, which must include at least 2 of the permanent member states.  Essentially, make it 2/3 majority vote requiring 3/5 of the permanent members in favour in order to pass any resolution.  (The UNSC has 15 members; right now it only take 9 votes to pass a resolution, but the vote can be vetoed by any one of the permanent members.)

It would simultaneously give more power to the elected members of the Security Council and eliminate the ability of one nation to block the collective will of the entire Council, but preserve the ability of member states advancing certain interests to block resolutions detrimental to a specific portion of the world.

Of course, that would actually ensure the UNSC can do its job, and we wouldn't want that now would we?

Oh, right, forgot about something - tangent, but still important:

Or, the U.S. proves everyone else has terrorist ties by opening up all of it's NSA surveillance and shows the world who is in bed with whom, but that would also make the U.S. a terrorist simply for the magnitude of information it's collecting on foreign entities, with intent to use that information to destroy those who oppose U.S. interests.

You need to revisit the definition of terrorism.  I know it gets bandied about way too much these days and American politicians are just as guilty as anyone for using the term improperly, so you're not entirely to blame, but espionage is not terrorism.  Drone strikes, sure, you can slot them into the terrorism umbrella generally, but that's more of a political position than a factual one.  Espionage, no - regardless of intent.

Stalin said it best:  "the purpose of terrorism is to terrorize."  Terrorism is the intentional targeted violence (or threat of violence) toward civilian populations with the intent to create fear and create a coercive effect, typically (but not necessarily) coupled with a political objective.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 10:14:05 am by MP-Ryan »
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/war-comes-to-syrias-quiet-christian-hinterland-8803394.html

So the war came to this unique place and it's citizens. A pity that SAA did not stop terrorists from taking the entire city. I hope that they will take it back and kill these "rebels".
And again Syrian Christians  are in great danger.

I may not be a specialist but one thing is sure to me. If Assad falls, Christians will be expelled and exterminated, behaviour of the jihadists leaves no doubts here.
 

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Ah! So now Kerry made the blunder of throwing the suggestion that perhaps Assad could give up his CWs.

Putin immediately grabbed the occasion in order to begin a really amazing piece of time trolling (I stand in AWE to the ability of this thug to play the game so ****ing well), and accept the offer! Of course that this would mean a bunch of time lost in order for nothing to anything in particular being resolved. So the White House said that Kerry didn't really mean it.

But now Cameron naively thinks it's such a great idea! He adds and I quote "This shouldn't be used as a distraction tactic".

How ****ing ADORABLE these pathetic people are! It's like they are begging to be trolled and played like the idiots that they are.

Hey, perhaps they are.

  
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
<snip>
How ****ing ADORABLE these pathetic people are! It's like they are begging to be trolled and played like the idiots that they are.

Hey, perhaps they are.

Well, at least they're getting rather rich off of it with their salaries, bribes, gifts and a cozy spot as CEO of corporations they supported by use of legislation. :P

I'm all about getting the most out of games, so whenever I discover something very strange or push the limits, I upload them here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCDentonCZ

-----------------

The End of History has come and gone.

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
How nice of the Americans, Russians and Syrians to come together and think up a solution that allows everyone on this thread to say they were in the right. :p
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline redsniper

  • 211
  • Aim for the Top!
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
I....... huh. I was not expecting this.
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
There's also recently been a few journalists released who were previously kidnapped, they state that they know Assad's government didn't use the chemical weapons (according to a conversation between rebels they interrupted?)

http://globalnews.ca/news/829612/italian-reporter-and-belgian-writer-kidnapped-in-syria-released/

though given that they were kidnapped, who knows.

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
As one of the people who would be boots-on-the-ground within a month or two after any hypothetical strikes happen, this pleases me greatly, and I wholeheartedly wish this plan succeeds.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Amazing what happens when the Russians see the writing on the wall and decide that obstruction no longer protects their interests.

I see France is drafting the UN SC resolution, threatening extremely serious consequences for non-compliance, so this seems quite likely to succeed.  Especially since Syria says they're on board and the plan was Russian in origin.  Let's all hope.

Now the only question is how to get the rebels to give up any chemical weapons in their possession.  Seems to me the West has some leverage there.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
I see I am the only cynic in here regarding this solution. Damn I hope you are all right and that I am terribly wrong on this one. Also, I wish you luck Scotty.

 

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Steam
    • Something
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
And now of course Russia is refusing to back any sort of resolution with severe consequences for non-compliance.  Why the **** do they even bother being part of the UN in the first place?

 

Offline SypheDMar

  • 210
  • Student, Volunteer, Savior
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Well, we know that Assad is at least worried about the US, so I think they will give away their chemical weapons regardless of Russia's veto. The threat of hard power brought about something good so that it's not a lose-lose situation for the US.

I don't think Russia will troll us because it will piss off the rest of the international community. Even they would feel embarrassed.

 
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
And now of course Russia is refusing to back any sort of resolution with severe consequences for non-compliance.  Why the **** do they even bother being part of the UN in the first place?

Well,
It could be that it's because the United States invaded Iraq on the pretense that they had WMDs, weapons that were never found.

And that this new resolution is essentially legitimizing such an action in future.

How hard would it to be for a country to say "they're not co-operating, we have the right to use force and invade"?


And does anyone remember the days when the UN was known for it's PEACEKEEPERS? Not drafting laws which potentially make legal military action against a sovereign nation?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 09:04:02 pm by Akalabeth Angel »