Author Topic: **** Russia (and Syria too)  (Read 35860 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline jg18

  • A very happy zod
  • 210
  • can do more than spellcheck
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Brilliant move on Russia's part, and probably what they'd planned to do from the start. It puts the US and Europe in a bind (EDIT: unless they can somehow negotiate their way out of it). They can either accept a toothless resolution and look weak or alternatively refuse to back it and look like barbaric warmongers who were never seriously interested in non-military solutions.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
*points at thread title*

Yeah.  That.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
I agree.  I really, really do not want to go to Syria this year.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Figures. Come on people, grow that cynic cell inside of each one of your brains tenfold unless you don't want to understand world politics. COME ONNNNNN

 
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Figures. Come on people, grow that cynic cell inside of each one of your brains tenfold unless you don't want to understand world politics. COME ONNNNNN

The only cynic inside me is saying that it's very suspect that the government would use chemical weapons on the very day the UN inspectors were apparently arriving. The US is saying "common sense says the government did it" but to me, common sense says "no one is that stupid". OR at least, no one who has held onto power for that long is that stupid. Furthermore from what I understand the attacks happened in an area where government troops were already winning. Why would any force resort to chemical weapons when the situation is anything but dire?

And also that the US casualty estimates far exceed everyone else's, which is the complete opposite from the norm.

It also notices that the French are in part spearheading some of the efforts, and that Syria was formerly under French rule. When other countries are in trouble, the French weren't at the forefront, put Syria out there and they are.

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Why the **** do they even bother being part of the UN in the first place?
Same reason as everyone else: To protect their national interests.  Why else would a state be part of the UN?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 08:13:34 pm by Aesaar »

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
The french were spearheading the opposition to the United States in their Iraq invasion, but at the time what wasn't so widely known was that Saddam was making deals with the French in order to start selling their oil in euros rather than dollars.

But of course that the real reason the french were opposed to the war was because humanitarianism and so on!

 
 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Ahahahah now Putin is going all wiseman in the NYT and all the dip****s there are just drooling up his wise words of wisdom!

You have to rely on Garry Kasparov tweets for some sanity:

Quote
Pathetic of the New York Times to provide Putin with a platform for condescending propaganda. Putin lecturing on peace & international law!

I hope Putin has taken adequate protections. Now that he is a Russian journalist his life may be in grave danger!

Putin's troops still occupy annexed Georgian territory after he invaded in 2008. My memory may be bad; was there a Security Council vote?

A pity we will have to rely on the NY Times archives to find op-eds by Qaddafi, Saddam Hussein, and Hugo Chavez on human rights.

If Putin really wants to help retrieve al-Assad's weapons he can provide the mailing list he used to send them to Syria in the first place.

Ahahahah, I just love Garry.


 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
being a hypocrite means you will always be half right.
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

  

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • 213
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4429297,00.html

Quote
Syrians in Israeli hospital urge US strike
Some 14 Syrian wounded hospitalized in Nahariya hospital, say they want US strike to oust Assad. Altogether, 86 Syrians treated in Israel


Against the backdrop of recent talks of diplomatic solutions to the Syrian crisis, the bloodshed persists, prompting many injured Syrians to cross the border and arrive at Israeli hospitals.

On Thursday, some 14 Syrians were still admitted to various wings in the Western Galilee Hospital in Nahariya. Some of them told Ynet they were still hoping US President Obama would launch a military strike on Syria and topple Syrian President Bashar Assad.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
BREAKING

A bunch of wounded and angry people want payback!

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • 211
  • Guns, guns, guns.
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Yeah.  I'm fairly certain that the fact that many, many Syrians are pissed off at Assad was only news about two years ago.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Re: **** Russia (and Syria too)
Putin and Russia's motives notwithstanding I find myself still agreeing with their position - in the sense that it seems preferable over a strike of no actual effect to "prove a point".

Obviously, though, this happens to be Putin's opinion because it's more beneficial to Russia. No one should be under any illusions that Russia and Putin have no scruples with using military power with or without UNSC authorization when it suits them. Or, at "best" case, they might feel bad about it but they still do it.

Even so, the ethical basis for his argument being almost certainly bogus - the part where he appeals to legal authority and upholding legislation even if one doesn't like it - I can't really see any obvious flaws in the arguments themselves.


In short: Even though I have deep doubts about whether he actually thinks like this, I still think what he's saying is, at least, less wrong than thinking that any problem at this point would be solved by NATO strike in Syria.

It's mostly a case of Carpe Diem for Russia, in my view, rather than any political brilliance on their part.

It's a pretty tragicomic thing to have to agree with the leader of one of the most opportunistic, unethical, politically repressed, economically distorted, thuggish, and corrupt nations* on the planet on a matter like this, but I think it's more the fact that the US and rest of the Western world has completely screwed up the political and media handling of the Syrian crisis. It has led to this ridiculous situation with the "red line" of chemical weapons having crossed but without clear proof of whodunnit, and are now scrambling to either do some kind of strike because they said they would do that, or to find some way to back off with at least some dignity intact.

Since Russia had aligned themselves with Assad's regime since the beginning, they just took advantage of these political blunders made by others - the only thing Russia and Putin needed to do to "seize the day", so to speak, was to present themselves as the ones who are against increased violence on the area. It's just a case of good political analysis; I doubt they planned for it...


Or maybe, just maybe, I'm unfairly biased against Russia due to geopolitical and historical reasons. :p



Regardless of what I think of Russia, however, I'm inclined to think that any solution that leads to secure disarmament of Syria's chemical weapons arsenal is a good thing regardless of what motivates it. 'Cause right now I see those stockpiles as a huge risk of destabilizing agent not only in the Middle-East but elsewhere in the world, if the really radical elements present in Syria happen to get a hold on them and smuggle them out of the country. Worst case scenario is that this has already happened.


*The US is also on this list on my books, for what it's worth. Also includes China, Iran, Israel, Venezuela, North Korea, Saudi-Arabia, most other Middle-Eastern countries, many African nations, and Vatican. For varying reasons.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 12:19:42 pm by Herra Tohtori »
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.