Author Topic: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7  (Read 27058 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
Don't worry about the loop issue SF-Junky, it's a code issue that has been fixed in the recent RC's. 

On the other hand, the navpoint issue that CT27 reported could do with a closer look :)

In regards to this particular mission I've been talking about (no nav beacons on mission 5), it plays fine when I play it through the techroom but it's when I play it through the campaign I have these problems.
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
In regards to this particular mission I've been talking about (no nav beacons on mission 5), it plays fine when I play it through the techroom but it's when I play it through the campaign I have these problems.
Hmm... my test was in the techroom. I'll do a more thorough test when I get home later.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Admiral Nelson

  • Resurrecter of Campaigns
  • 211
  • The GTA expects that every man will do his duty.
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
Why do the beacons have red-alert-carry set?  That may the source of the problem, as they were not present in the previous mission.
If a man consults whether he is to fight, when he has the power in his own hands, it is certain that his opinion is against fighting.

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
Why do the beacons have red-alert-carry set?  That may the source of the problem, as they were not present in the previous mission.

Gah...

That is precisely it.  You've found the problem.  Since red-alert now applies to ships which arrive later in the mission, the navbuoys are susceptible to red-alert whereas they were not before.

Do earlier versions of Derelict (including the retail one) have the red-alert-carry flag?

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
Is it desired engine behavior for a ship with red-alert-carry set that wasn't in the previous mission to cease to exist?
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Admiral Nelson

  • Resurrecter of Campaigns
  • 211
  • The GTA expects that every man will do his duty.
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
Do earlier versions of Derelict (including the retail one) have the red-alert-carry flag?

It was there in Blaise's remake, at least. 
If a man consults whether he is to fight, when he has the power in his own hands, it is certain that his opinion is against fighting.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
Is it desired engine behavior for a ship with red-alert-carry set that wasn't in the previous mission to cease to exist?

The way the code works, if it can't find red-alert data from the previous mission for the red-alert-carry ship, it'll assume it's been destroyed. Previously it only looked at ships that were present at mission start, now it looks at ships that arrive after mission start as well.
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
The best solution, I think, is to make the new extension of red-alert behavior (i.e. applying to ships that arrive after mission start) contingent on a game_settings.tbl flag.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
FYI, I've just run a test with a shortened campaign file.  It seems that removing red-alert-carry from all ships in the 5th mission at least allows you complete the mission (see previous posts for why the nav-buoys shouldn't have it, and wingman don't need it because they're always assumed to have red-alert-carry anyway).  On the downside, the issue with the extra Subach and 3rd missile bank remains, so it seems there's a 2nd & separate issue to track down (it's probably related to red-alert code changes as well though)

edit: oops, meant to attach the the changed mission & campaign file, they just need to go into derelict/data/missions, then select "Derelict Test" in the campaign room

[attachment kidnapped by pirates]
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
Uuuh, why can't we just get rid of the red-alert-carries on the navbuoys?
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
We could, but there are several already-released versions of Derelict that have the flags.  Not to mention the possibility of other mistakenly added flags in other campaigns.

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7.0
niffiwan has created a couple Mantis tickets to look at the issue:

http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=3055
http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=3056

 

Offline SF-Junky

  • 29
  • Bread can mold, what can you do?
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Alright. I got rid of the red-alert flags on those nav buoys and played through the entire campaign again. It all worked quite fine. Please check out the opening post. You just have to re-download the core files!

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
While the loop and nav buoy issues seem to be fixed, I ran into another problem with Derelict 3.7.  FYI, I was using a recent nightly build on this.

The mission name is "An Advancement Of Learning".  In the techroom its designation is "DL2-09.FS2" (I give the designation because I unfortunately wasn't keeping count of how many missions I got through).

There were two primary objectives (1-Escort the science convoy and 2-Escort Einstein's escape pod) and a secondary objective (Defeat pirate attacks).  I was successfully able to complete all three, however the debriefing acted like the convoy and escape pod were destroyed (however, I was still able to progress in the campaign).

Something I noticed:  when the escape pod successfully docked and Command said the scientists were safe, the "Primary Objective 1/2 complete" tab didn't come up like it usually does when you complete a mission objective.  At the very end of the mission when Command orders you to dock with Tau Sigma Station, I hit F4 to check the mission objective screen and 'Escort the science convoy' and 'Defeat pirate attacks' had a green circle next to them registering them as complete but for some reason the Einstein escape pod objective still had a blank circle next to it.  For some reason the mission doesn't seem to acknowledge this objective as completed.  Maybe that's why I'm getting the failure debriefing even though I fulfilled all objectives?

 

Offline Macfie

  • 210
  • If somebody made a campaign I've probably got it
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Does this happen every time you play the mission?  Occasionally objectives will not get picked up which is what this sounds like.  If it's a random problem it will be hard to track down but if it occurs all the time it is easier to fix. 
Also did both escape pods dock/depart?  The message is sent as soon as either escape pod docks/departs, but the objective requires both escape pods to dock/depart. 
"DL2-09.FS2" is much more useful than how many missions.  This mission could be mission number 20 or number 16 or anything in between depending on which path you played.  The techroom designation is also the file name which makes it easier to find and check.  In order of importance it would be Techroom designation, then mission name and least useful of all, mission number.
Normal people believe that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it isn't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
The difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers is:
Mechanical Engineers build weapons.  Civil Engineers build targets
An optimist sees the glass half full; the pessimist sees it half empty. An engineer sees that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
So far it's happened every time I played the mission.

There was only one escape pod.  It leaves the GTSC Einstein after it's hit by pirate bombers.

 

Offline Macfie

  • 210
  • If somebody made a campaign I've probably got it
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
That's the problem there are supposed to be 2 escape pods.  The second escape pod arrives 4 seconds after the 1st.  I would guess you are not keeping the Einstein alive long enough for the second escape pod to arrive.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 01:27:24 pm by Macfie »
Normal people believe that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it isn't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
The difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers is:
Mechanical Engineers build weapons.  Civil Engineers build targets
An optimist sees the glass half full; the pessimist sees it half empty. An engineer sees that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
That's extremely difficult to do if two pods are supposed to be launched.  As soon as the bombers arrive (in different locations each time so I can't guess a certain location to try and be at) they launch a boatload of Trebs , quickly killing the Einstein and only allowing one to be launched.

I would have thought this was one of those missions that is supposed to be failed but Command gives a successful 'we have all the scientists' when the escape pod docks at the station.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 11:12:46 pm by CT27 »

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Uh... in retail Derelict, it was not possible for bombers to launch Trebuchets.  Does the SCP-ified version of Derelict include an AI profile option to enable that?  Cause that would dramatically throw off the balance as CT27 has seen.

Of course it's also possible that a SCP bug has been introduced that ignores the AI profile option...

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
I don't remember bombers throwing Trebs in other missions, so maybe it's just this one that has the problem?

Also, just to make sure I'm identifying the missiles in the mission correctly, Trebs have kind of a reddish orangish trail to them right?