Author Topic: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7  (Read 27011 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
I don't remember bombers throwing Trebs in other missions, so maybe it's just this one that has the problem?

Also, just to make sure I'm identifying the missiles in the mission correctly, Trebs have kind of a reddish orangish trail to them right?

Probably, trebuchets are assigned to a number of ships in that mission (Black, Grey & Gold wings).  And there's this SEXP which I presume means that all hostile ships in the mission will Treb the Einstein when Green wing arrives (ouch)

Code: [Select]
$Formula: ( when
   ( has-arrived-delay 0 "Green" )
   ( good-secondary-time
      "Hostile"
      100
      "Trebuchet"
      "Einstein"
   )
)
+Name: Use Trebs against Einstein
+Repeat Count: 1
+Interval: 1
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Macfie

  • 210
  • If somebody made a campaign I've probably got it
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
The original SCP edition had the escape pod arrivals triggered off < 76 hits remaining for escape 1 and < 70 hits for escape 2 essentially they arrived at the same time.  When SF-Junky revised the mission he changed the arrival cue for escape 2 for 4 seconds after escape 1 arrives.  Because the arrival point is the Einstein fighter bay if it is destroyed the second escape pod will not arrive.  If the arrival cue is reverted to the original the mission will work but the escape pods arrive at the same time. 
Normal people believe that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it isn't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
The difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers is:
Mechanical Engineers build weapons.  Civil Engineers build targets
An optimist sees the glass half full; the pessimist sees it half empty. An engineer sees that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

Offline SF-Junky

  • 29
  • Bread can mold, what can you do?
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
When SF-Junky revised the mission he changed the arrival cue for escape 2 for 4 seconds after escape 1 arrives.
No, me stupid had Escape 2 arrive four seconds after Escape 2. That, of course, couldn't work. :p I now got rid of the bug. I also changed the loadout of those bombers. They now carry only 1 Treb, so that the first salvo will bring the Einstein down to 34% hull integrity. Then the trigger with the containment brach can work quite on the way it should.

The core files have been updated. Alternatively, you can just download this file and unpack it right into your derelict/missions folder.

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Probably, trebuchets are assigned to a number of ships in that mission (Black, Grey & Gold wings).  And there's this SEXP which I presume means that all hostile ships in the mission will Treb the Einstein when Green wing arrives (ouch)

Code: [Select]
$Formula: ( when
   ( has-arrived-delay 0 "Green" )
   ( good-secondary-time
      "Hostile"
      100
      "Trebuchet"
      "Einstein"
   )
)
+Name: Use Trebs against Einstein
+Repeat Count: 1
+Interval: 1

That event isn't present in either the original retail release or Blaise Russel's 2005 re-release.  Additionally, in those releases, only Grey wing has Trebuchets.  So when and why was it rebalanced?

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Good news:

The updated mission worked and I got two escape pods.


Not great news:
I think this is one of those missions that is maybe supposed to be lost because I saved all the convoy craft (except for the Einstein) but in the mission debriefing it said the loss of the convoy ships was disappointing but understandable due to the number of enemy ships.  It then said they will try to get MT help.

However, this is better than before due to the fact that the  debriefing now talked about how you at least saved some of the scientists and research (on the pods).

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Some bad news unfortunately:

I can't access the final few missions (I'm playing a campaign).

This error came up:

Can't open model file <artemisdh.pof>
ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 67 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1_20140608_r10778.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1_20140608_r10778.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1_20140608_r10778.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1_20140608_r10778.exe! <no symbol>



Which is weird because up until recently I didn't get this screen (I didn't have an Artemis error before).  For some reason now it seems to be having problems with the new Artemis model Hydra maybe?

 

Offline Macfie

  • 210
  • If somebody made a campaign I've probably got it
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
It would appear that the model was left out of the recent core files.
Normal people believe that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it isn't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
The difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers is:
Mechanical Engineers build weapons.  Civil Engineers build targets
An optimist sees the glass half full; the pessimist sees it half empty. An engineer sees that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
I was able to solve this particular problem for now at least.

I was playing on the 2012 Media VPs, but I switched the mod ini thing to the 2014 Media VPs, and that fixed things so I was able to complete the campaign.

 

Offline Macfie

  • 210
  • If somebody made a campaign I've probably got it
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Yes  in the mediavps 2014 the artemis DH model is artemisDH.pof, but in the 3.6.12 mediavps it is bonus2t-01.pof because there was not an upgraded model.  The upgraded model should have been included for use with the 3.6.12 mediavps.
Normal people believe that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it isn't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
The difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers is:
Mechanical Engineers build weapons.  Civil Engineers build targets
An optimist sees the glass half full; the pessimist sees it half empty. An engineer sees that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
One thing I did notice using the 2014 VPs is that the Arcadia looks really pretty now.

 

Offline Macfie

  • 210
  • If somebody made a campaign I've probably got it
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
I'm thinking that with the recent fixes derelict 3.7 may be compatible with the mediaVPs_2014.
Normal people believe that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it isn't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
The difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers is:
Mechanical Engineers build weapons.  Civil Engineers build targets
An optimist sees the glass half full; the pessimist sees it half empty. An engineer sees that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
For what it's worth the final two playable missions ("Momento Mori" and "Hail Mary") seemed to work fine with the 2014 VPs.

 

Offline SF-Junky

  • 29
  • Bread can mold, what can you do?
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Probably, trebuchets are assigned to a number of ships in that mission (Black, Grey & Gold wings).  And there's this SEXP which I presume means that all hostile ships in the mission will Treb the Einstein when Green wing arrives (ouch)

Code: [Select]
$Formula: ( when
   ( has-arrived-delay 0 "Green" )
   ( good-secondary-time
      "Hostile"
      100
      "Trebuchet"
      "Einstein"
   )
)
+Name: Use Trebs against Einstein
+Repeat Count: 1
+Interval: 1

That event isn't present in either the original retail release or Blaise Russel's 2005 re-release.  Additionally, in those releases, only Grey wing has Trebuchets.  So when and why was it rebalanced?
I made these changes, because (at least on medium difficulty) it is all too easy to destroy all bombers without the Einstein even suffering a scratch, but it still gets destroyed because of a "containment failure" due to battle damage. I think the current setting makes it a little more credible. Do you think I went too far? :)


Good news:

The updated mission worked and I got two escape pods.


Not great news:
I think this is one of those missions that is maybe supposed to be lost because I saved all the convoy craft (except for the Einstein) but in the mission debriefing it said the loss of the convoy ships was disappointing but understandable due to the number of enemy ships.  It then said they will try to get MT help.

However, this is better than before due to the fact that the  debriefing now talked about how you at least saved some of the scientists and research (on the pods).
Yes, the Einstein is supposed to be destroyed. It always happens. Even if it survives the pirate attacks with 100% hull integrity, it loses containment due to battle damage as soon as 90% of the pirate bombers are destroyed. The debriefing does indeed sound a little strange as it always says that "Without the science vessels, their crews and their research, it seems that we will fall seriously behind in our research into the Nyarlathotep." even if you save the escape pods and therefore did not lose any scientists.

Oh, and sorry about that artemisdh.pof. I oversaw that I had changed the model name. This was necessary because otherwise the game would have used the retail model which really does not live up to today's standards. :D So, yeah, you now need the 2014 mediavps to play Derelict. I changed the opening post accordingly.

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Yes, the Einstein is supposed to be destroyed. It always happens. Even if it survives the pirate attacks with 100% hull integrity, it loses containment due to battle damage as soon as 90% of the pirate bombers are destroyed. The debriefing does indeed sound a little strange as it always says that "Without the science vessels, their crews and their research, it seems that we will fall seriously behind in our research into the Nyarlathotep." even if you save the escape pods and therefore did not lose any scientists.

At least now it says (I forgot the exact wording) "at least you saved something so it's not a total loss" if you save the Einstein's pods.

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
I made these changes, because (at least on medium difficulty) it is all too easy to destroy all bombers without the Einstein even suffering a scratch, but it still gets destroyed because of a "containment failure" due to battle damage. I think the current setting makes it a little more credible. Do you think I went too far? :)

It depends on your purpose.  Are you doing a simple straight conversion of Derelict to use the most recent MVPs, like Blaise Russel did?  Or are you fixing some bugs and inconsistencies, like a mini-"Derelict Reborn"?

I think it would be acceptable to change the balance slightly, but it sounds like you changed the balance significantly if CT27 was having so much trouble with it.  The best balance, IMHO, would be the Einstein suffering some damage (i.e. more than "just a scratch") but not so much that the player is in danger of losing it before the scripted event.

 

Offline SF-Junky

  • 29
  • Bread can mold, what can you do?
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
It depends on your purpose.  Are you doing a simple straight conversion of Derelict to use the most recent MVPs, like Blaise Russel did?  Or are you fixing some bugs and inconsistencies, like a mini-"Derelict Reborn"?

The latter rather than the former.


Quote
I think it would be acceptable to change the balance slightly, but it sounds like you changed the balance significantly if CT27 was having so much trouble with it.  The best balance, IMHO, would be the Einstein suffering some damage (i.e. more than "just a scratch") but not so much that the player is in danger of losing it before the scripted event.

CT27's trouble came from the simple fact, that the second escape pod didn't show up due to the arrival trigger error I caused. The scripted event that destroys the Einstein kicks in when either its hull integrity is down to 80% or 90% of Black wing are destroyed. So I think the current solution is pretty close to what it's supposed to be.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 02:42:37 am by SF-Junky »

 
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Just started playing this with MediaVPS 2014 and noticed the bugs mentioned above as well (Arcadia looks ugly, nav buoy missing etc).

It sounds like a lot of these issues are being fixed at this very moment - is there a plan to release a newer Derelict package with these fixes implemented?  Because so far it's been a great campaign.

 

Offline Macfie

  • 210
  • If somebody made a campaign I've probably got it
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Just started playing this with MediaVPS 2014 and noticed the bugs mentioned above as well (Arcadia looks ugly, nav buoy missing etc).

It sounds like a lot of these issues are being fixed at this very moment - is there a plan to release a newer Derelict package with these fixes implemented?  Because so far it's been a great campaign.
The problems have been fixed in the updated release.  Make sure you have the current release.  If the Arcadia looks ugly there is something wrong with your setup.  You might want to post a log.
Normal people believe that if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it isn't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
The difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers is:
Mechanical Engineers build weapons.  Civil Engineers build targets
An optimist sees the glass half full; the pessimist sees it half empty. An engineer sees that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
Also, make sure you're playing with a recent nightly build.

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Re: RELEASE: Derelict 3.7
If someone has the unpatched version of the Derelict campaign, I'd appreciate some feedback on whether the nightly builds fix the navbuoy bug:
http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=3055