[Phantom Hoover]

facebook is notoriously unwilling to let users delete accounts, actually.

[S-99]

Yeah, the deactive my account link on there is just a logout button.

[swashmebuckle]

Government programs are pretty much unbeatable, and aren't going to use your information in ways that will harm you anyway - unless you deserve it.

Omnipotent, omniscient, and just!

<3 Government!

Trust at level 10!

[Dragon]

It's a good approach to the issue, actually. It's not like we can actually do anything about government surveillance, so we'd better hope that they're not going to abuse this. You can consider yourself lucky if you live in a country where this is not an absurd assumption. While I did hear about a few cases in America of this stuff being indeed abused (mostly travel restrictions and the like), it's generally got a good record about it compared to, say, Russia.

Of course, you can always live in a country where most people in the government are old geezers too incompetent to even make their electronic document exchange system run smoothly (though I'll give it to them, when it is not broken, it's a great improvement over traditional paperwork). This has it's own drawbacks, though, as my frequent complaints about Polish politics can attest.

[Flak]

Good thing I was highly paranoid when it comes to social media, even before all these PRISM things comes around. I never update my status on facebook, I only snark at people's posts. I always assume that anything I put on Facebook can be seen by everyone, so I only let people see what I want them to see. Still, the webcam on my laptop now makes me feel uneasy, perhaps I should cover it with duct tape.

[S-99]

In my own opinion. The nsa has too much power; it wasn't so much built to be abused as it is also an abuse itself. Then again a lot of it's abusing has already been happening, just i don't know why people haven't been calling the lot of it abuse.

Right now the nsa is gathering dirt on everybody, which sizes them up and then some. I foresee a lot of blackmail, misrepresentation of fact and people, and even fabricated information. You know, the bad things that happen when abuse increases.

But, fabricated information about people would be easy for the nsa to get away with. The nsa collects real data about everyone on everything. There's this, but who's going to know any different when they start fabricating details about a person if they were to do so (i'll put it more realistically; if they were ordered to do so)? For whatever purpose, it doesn't matter, but a good one i can think of is someone in the population that fits the beliefs,  lifestyle, education, etc. that can be re-invented into an enemy of the country on paper and then purported as such through more misinformation on other mediums. You know, for another tragic event to happen that  will make people scared again to allow for **** like security cameras in your house that big brother watches or implanted chips (it doesn't matter, it's alright, because i guess it's not so bad people figure). Right now i would say my government is far from truthful.

Spying is great after 911. What's weird (yes i can spell that word correctly now) is people not minding this ****. Now of course there was spying before 911, but not the kind of police state we have today involving that. So, i see it as everyone went from having virgin buttholes that could break glass if farted, to tragic event that triggers everyone to be forced to have a buttplug fudge packed way up there. And people are saying "i have nothing to hide, this isn't too bad to deal with" and the buttplug gets bigger as time goes on. In a nutshell, it's really odd running into people who don't mind being ****ed, ****ed again, and again (people that don't mind a steadily worsening situation that directly affects them when nothing had to get worse in the first place). Bad stuff is happening that is very bad and is happening to people directly and it keeps getting worse. And it is worrisome thinking about the nsa's very likely  potential for more active abuse as they keep existing encouraged by a government that put it there that isn't much better. But yeah, the "i don't have anything to hide" crowd doesn't mind buttplugs. I say we all don't want to find out when the buttplugs become obsolete in favor of an upgrade to penises.

[headdie]

S-99

you honestly believe that in this time of nations struggling to fund themselves (referring to the US's recent budgeting issues as a highlight of this but not restricted to this) in nations renown for cutting back where possible on public spending that the intelligence agencies generally have to time to dick about in the lives of private citizens for the hell of it when they have to locate threats from multiple sources, both nation states and private organisations running multiple operations that could threaten the countries in question, hidden amongst the billions of people occupying this planet, a sizable proportion of which are involved in transmitting hundreds of electronic signals per day....

need i continue?

seriously while it is possible and there are times when power is abused, outside of the usual suspects of nations government or private entity abuse of national intelligence resources and or data is rare enough that the risk percentage is not worth calculating thus i refer you to my earlier post.  If you live in a country where this sort of abuse is frequent then by all means take a stand but I advise if you do that you have an exit strategy in place.

[Flak]

Let me point you guys something more interesting. One of the things Edward Snowden leaked was that NSA put various bug devices here and there. The US actually smart enough that they put those surveillance centers not in any buildings that belong to them, but rather those that belong to their allies that are in better relationship to the country in question. For example, they use embassies of their allies as surveillance centers, most notably British and Australian embassies and consulates, hardly ever in their own so that they can wash their hands if they ever get caught. In my country, while they do spy on terrorists threats and all, what the NSA is the most interested in are the political stuff, like whether the government officials they bribed held their end of their bargain or not, or some locals are attempting a crackdown on one of their companies. Our government officials are not trustworthy, to say the least.

[MP-Ryan]

Government programs are pretty much unbeatable, and aren't going to use your information in ways that will harm you anyway - unless you deserve it.

Omnipotent, omniscient, and just!

<3 Government!

Trust at level 10!

You should be reading what I wrote as cynicism, not trust.  Frankly, most government programs aren't competent enough to mount a concerted conspiracy.  For anyone not doing anything nefarious, the chances of them ever catching the attention of the various international espionage programs are slim and none.

[Klaustrophobia]

i think we'd all be shocked at how competent the government can be when serving its own ends instead of ours.

[Phantom Hoover]

Good thing I was highly paranoid when it comes to social media, even before all these PRISM things comes around. I never update my status on facebook, I only snark at people's posts. I always assume that anything I put on Facebook can be seen by everyone, so I only let people see what I want them to see. Still, the webcam on my laptop now makes me feel uneasy, perhaps I should cover it with duct tape.

We've been over this! Doing all that accomplished nothing, because that's not how PRISM works! It doesn't read the actual content of your messages, it monitors your overall traffic habits: snarking on other people's statuses actually gives it MORE information on you.

[swashmebuckle]

You should be reading what I wrote as cynicism, not trust.  Frankly, most government programs aren't competent enough to mount a concerted conspiracy.  For anyone not doing anything nefarious, the chances of them ever catching the attention of the various international espionage programs are slim and none.

I don't think any conspiracy is required for programs like this to result in serious abuses of power. All you need is a nebulously defined global conflict, an institutional culture based around finding hidden enemies, and a lack of meaningful oversight. Bonus points if your country is willing to indefinitely detain and/or assassinate civilians. Major bonus points if you have convinced your populace that there's nothing they can do about it but they're safe as long as they keep their heads down.

[S-99]

S-99

you honestly believe that in this time of nations struggling to fund themselves (referring to the US's recent budgeting issues as a highlight of this but not restricted to this) in nations renown for cutting back where possible on public spending that the intelligence agencies generally have to time to dick about in the lives of private citizens for the hell of it when they have to locate threats from multiple sources, both nation states and private organisations running multiple operations that could threaten the countries in question, hidden amongst the billions of people occupying this planet, a sizable proportion of which are involved in transmitting hundreds of electronic signals per day....

need i continue?

seriously while it is possible and there are times when power is abused, outside of the usual suspects of nations government or private entity abuse of national intelligence resources and or data is rare enough that the risk percentage is not worth calculating thus i refer you to my earlier post.  If you live in a country where this sort of abuse is frequent then by all means take a stand but I advise if you do that you have an exit strategy in place.

In my country power is obviously being abused. And it's even obvious. The conspiracy is not very hidden. Either way, the point being scaring the populace and instituting new "security" seems to be the norm over here. The last thing is when something has so much power, you tend to evaluate upon it's potential for delivering abuse further (even above and beyond) when whatever has the power to do so. It gets down to in a situation like that you better expect abuse. In fact, it's guaranteed. And in reality was it abuse when so much power was given to anything? Yes.

When my health insurance rates double, and i can't pay that because of the income inequality (even though a college graduate i could only find work where i live as a burger flipper, and i was lucky to get that because the other applicants didn't speak english). Then i get to pay a punitive fee which increases. This will lead to more and more people who will get to choose paying for food, bills, and mortgage/rent. This is called ****ing people, and i'm feeling pretty ****ed for knowing how close to this reality i myself and others are you dick.

If you think for once that my government is operating in the interests of it's people. I'll tell you to go snort more hallucinegens.

I can't currently trust my government to work in the interests of it's own people, it's obvious i can't. They are all greedy in the end. And my government is greedy because it believes it can take it out on the people instead of paying off it's debts and do nothing but massive spending. Even as a government worker i am still ****ed because of the furlough, then the extended furlough from the shutdown. And lastly the government shutdown that was postponed until february. Hey, the government thinks i should handle more than a 20% decrease in pay a year. How much farther should that buttplug be further pilfering for chocolate man?

[perihelion]

You should be reading what I wrote as cynicism, not trust.  Frankly, most government programs aren't competent enough to mount a concerted conspiracy.  For anyone not doing anything nefarious, the chances of them ever catching the attention of the various international espionage programs are slim and none.

I don't think any conspiracy is required for programs like this to result in serious abuses of power. All you need is a nebulously defined global conflict, an institutional culture based around finding hidden enemies, and a lack of meaningful oversight. Bonus points if your country is willing to indefinitely detain and/or assassinate civilians. Major bonus points if you have convinced your populace that there's nothing they can do about it but they're safe as long as they keep their heads down.

This.  All of this.

I wish I was that articulate the last time someone accused me of being a "conspiracy theorist."  No conspiracy is required or even necessarily likely.  I wish to God that more people understood this.  This is a systemic problem, emergent in nature.  A conspiracy is something that can be defeated by exposure.  This is far more difficult to deal with.

[666maslo666]

If you use VPN or tor the government will generally not be able to spy on you, NSA included. Of course, that may not be true of the first thing you do is log on to Facebook and various easily tracked online accounts or begin to divulge personal information (I believe thats how they got the Silk Road dude) . Also if you are a really high profile target then almost anything is possible..

The issue is that VPNs and tor tend to slow down my browsing a lot, and good VPNs usualy cost money while you can never be 100% sure they dont log info. If anyone has tips how to solve these downsides I am all ears.

[Phantom Hoover]

Using VPNs or Tor is pretty much screaming "I have something to hide, come find out what it is" to the NSA.

[Dragon]

The easiest and most reliable way of avoiding NSA knowing about stuff you don't want them to know about is not to put it on the internet in the first place. Meaning nothing private on Facebook (they'd actually be better off reading the "movies I like" list in my profile. There are some darn good movies in there ) and on the internet in general. The only sensitive info I ever entered into my browser was meant for my bank, which is pretty much unavoidable these days, I'm afraid. Not to mention if they really wanted this info, they probably have ways of bullying the bank into giving them up (there was a story with UBS getting a court order to divulge info about their customers in US). While this is one area that could potentially be a problem, but as far as I know, banks are perhaps the only places on the internet with decent security. If they can't prevent the government from getting your sensitive data, probably nothing can.

Trivial stuff such as date of birth and my middle name is no secret anyway (it's the stuff I'd probably tell you if asked politely), and I'd actually want the government to store this kind of info in some central register somewhere. As it stands, I have to fill in those same data every darn time I need to fill out paperwork. Same with postal address, while I'd probably not tell it to a random guy on the street, the government, of all organizations, really should know this already.

If I ever wanted something about me to stay hidden, I'd simply give no hint about it whatsoever on the internet. Criminals posting their crimes on YouTube shouldn't be surprised if the police knocks on their doors.

[Phantom Hoover]

The easiest and most reliable way of avoiding NSA knowing about stuff you don't want them to know about is not to put it on the internet in the first place. Meaning nothing private on Facebook (they'd actually be better off reading the "movies I like" list in my profile. There are some darn good movies in there ) and on the internet in general.

how many ****ing times to i have to say that THE NSA IS NOT READING YOUR ****ING FACEBOOK

[Scotty]

Probably many more times than I should have to say calm down.

[666maslo666]

Using VPNs or Tor is pretty much screaming "I have something to hide, come find out what it is" to the NSA.

Nah, they are used by millions so it is not very suspicious. NSA does not have the resources nor an interest to spy on average Tor and VPN users, thats if it is even possible.