[MP-Ryan]

Prosecutors are often known for seeking sentences of less than 20 months for ASSAULT.  This seems like a minor bylaw infraction at absolute worst.  Good grief.

The public prosecutor had initially sought a jail term of over seven years for Ms Martin.

OK, Spain, WHAT THE ****?!

[BloodEagle]

I say we nuke the site from orbit.

[deathfun]

http://westvancouver.ca/sites/default/files/bylaws/NoiseControlBylawNo.4404%2C2005.pdf
Little reference I suppose for what a typical Noise By/law looks like (can't find the one for Spain which is apparently the Noise Act 37/2003)

The alleged victim said she now has such a horror of pianos, she cannot stand even seeing them in films, reports say.

Hahahahahahaha what?
The neighbor makes the pianist out like this guy with that exact piano

[Nuke]

Yeah, something seems awfully wrong with this information.  Either the law was written really stupidly, or the sound level measurements are reported incorrectly, or someone really is being a total dick if they're suing someone for 40dB of music noise.

where the measurement is taken matters a lot. if you held the sound meter very close to the piano you would get a higher reading than if you held the meter outside the apartment. the reading should be done from the complainants residence or at the very least outside the apartment.

[An4ximandros]

¡El respeto por los músicos esta muerto!

Seriously? While I can understand that the whole thing can reach a point where it might be necessary to get a police officer to mediate a dispute, seeking to throw someone in jail for twenty years over this is beyond a dumb-hole's event horizon.

[Klaustrophobia]

*months

[Nuke]

throwing insanely large numbers of people in jail for stupid **** is america's thing, i really dont know what spain is doing.

[Flak]

Actually, I have seen laws or rules concerning noise pollution in different areas have faulty bits. Last time I went for exhibition for my company and one of the rules said that any electronic medias should have noise of less than 30dB. When you go there, I think the aircon already make more noise that that, and I don't think anyone there have any idea what 30dB means.

[Dragon]

30dB? My CD drive runs much louder than that. Heck, my cat's footsteps are probably louder (he's a very big cat, but still...). This is ridiculous, those numbers are certainly pulled out of you-know-where. I wonder though, isn't this stuff is taught in middle school? 30dB is on the edge of audibility.

[Luis Dias]

Over-entitled whine-enabling professional-victim societies are over-entitledly whining in a professional victim way.

Yep, quite maddening.

[Lorric]

Over-entitled whine-enabling professional-victim societies are over-entitledly whining in a professional victim way.

Yep, quite maddening.

You know I keep thinking there just has to be more to it.

This isn't someone looking for money, there's no talk of compensation here.

I also find it strange that a noise pollution charge in Spain makes UK news.

[Flipside]

I think it made international news because of the fact that everyone feels there has to be more to it, that if this case were as presented it would be absolutely ridiculous. For example, from the Yahoo article :

Martin's parents became accessories when they carried out soundproofing work twice, but this failed to quell Bosom's complaints.

So by trying to take action to prevent the problem, her parents become accessories to it?

Basically, the whole thing comes across as a whole pile of Crazy, and despite trying quite hard to find more details in the English language, I can't find any details about this case that make it appear anything otherwise.

Maybe someone who can read Spanish will be able to get more details from local papers etc, but, as far as my language allows, I can find nothing to justify the directions this has gone in.

[Grizzly]

This isn't dog barking or some someone using drills or jackhammers at night. No wonder Europe economy is falling apart, their laws are slowly getting more and more ridiculous that people used them to gain money from minor infringement. Man, I am happy when the kid next door is playing piano instead of some jerk playing hiphop at insane volume or whatever they called 'music' in the radio.

Not at all, I am just wondering why do they have a lot of time doing these kind of things, while the more important things, like taking care of their economy for example, can take the backseat.

I vehemently dislike your posts in this thread for several reasons.

It implies that Spanish people fixing their economy is actually taking a backseat - it is not. In fact, Spain's economy is, according to the EU, pretty wel underway, nowadays, and from my brief time in that country, I noticed that everything there was in the theme of 'fixing the economy', up to and including the international football cup coverage.

It holds within it the ridicilous notion that the action of this judge is apperently a precedent for the entire country, even though it's just one case and it's not the judge's job to fix the economy - it's upholding the law.

It takes potshots at how ridicilous "Europe" is, and how ridicilous it's laws are, even though Europe is a aggegrate of over 20 countries whose inhabitants all speak different langauges, have different cultures, different laws, and for the last 2000 years have been in a more or less constant state of warfare, whilst this post treats them as one single entity and states them all as ridicilous based on one news source, which is only about spain, might just be only about a single region in span with a specific law, and of which we are not entirely source if the news from there is even accurate.

[Dragon]

He would've been right criticizing ridiculous EU regulations (which are not hard to find), but in this case, it's a local issue. And it's either a case of insanity, terminal stupidity, or there's more to it than we know of. The only way it could be related to economy in any way would be if there was some monetary compensation involved, but it's not the case.
Also, it's a very good thing this gets public coverage. People should not end up in jail for practicing their art. It's analogous to why various cases of bigotry in Arab countries should get coverage. Because it's wrong and should not happen.

[karajorma]

It holds within it the ridicilous notion that the action of this judge is apperently a precedent for the entire country, even though it's just one case and it's not the judge's job to fix the economy - it's upholding the law.

While I agree with you about many of your points, unless the justice system in Spain is enormously different from the systems I'm used to, it is not the job of the judge to bring a case, merely to resolve it. For all we know the judge might be the sanest person in this whole case. Again, unless Spain is very different there is likely to have been a whole chain of people who thought this was a worthy case before the judge even got involved. I know for certain there's a prosecutor.

[Beskargam]

There are plenty of ridiculous laws in every country, not just Spain. My state still has a law on the books making it illegal to have an erection in public. Good luck with that one.

[SypheDMar]

And in Ohio, it is illegal for 6 or more women to be living together. And getting fish drunk.

http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/ohio


I don't think this case is representative of the whole country of Spain, nor do I think Spain is a microcosm of all of Europe or even the EU, just like how I wouldn't use Texas to represent all of the US and how the US shouldn't represent North America.

[Flipside]

I don't think anyone is really holding the entirety of Spain responsible for whatever is happening here, there's a few generic statements, my own included that are somewhat tongue in cheek.

To be honest the idea that any Hispanic culture would ever grow to 'dislike' music is pretty unfathomable to me, Music is a massive part of any culture, but Latino/Hispanic culture is notably passionate about it, it's partly that which surprised me about this case.

I suppose the thing is that every country in the world does have silly rules in there somewhere, but if in the UK we actually tried to jail someone for, for example, defacing the Monarchs head on a coin or stamp, the Judge would probably shout at the CPS for wasting public money on something which really should never have made it to court. Since the article does not mention the Judges response to this case at all, and probably will not until he or she makes an official statement on it, this may be the case here as well, only time will tell.

And yes, this is nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, local laws such as this do not fall under the jurisdiction of the European Court at this level. If, however, she is thrown in jail, it might be part of the appeal process if things went that far, I'm not sure of the precise mechanism involved though, so I could be wrong.

Edit : Just changed references from Latino to Hispanic for accuracy.

[Flak]

I am not blaming the whole Spain, I am just blaming the idiocy of these people involved, and I know this is not an isolated incident, not only in Spain either but also other parts of the world. It is their attitude that needs to change, the laws could still be there but if people start at least use their brains and stop being so selfish-minded (being selfish is one thing, but being selfish-minded is another), I believe they can recover a lot faster than that. 

If you ask me, actually a fine is more appropriate than a jail time and a ban, but how could such thing be punishable is still a headbanger for me.

Hispanic against music? I don't think so. I have seen many Spanish or at least Hispanic musicians that are great. It may be the culture, not the people.

[Flipside]

Hispanic against music? I don't think so. I have seen many Spanish or at least Hispanic musicians that are great. It may be the culture, not the people.

Exactly, I was referring to why my comment in my first post of 'Maybe Spain has turned from the country that loves music to the country that hates it whilst I wasn't looking?' was intended as tongue in cheek, when it comes to Music, Hispanic cultures are probably among the most passionate and flamboyant about it, if that changed it would very nearly change the definition of the entire culture.