[BloodEagle]

It's not the developers who decide how a game should be played. It's we the players.

A few of them are sure as Hell trying to, lately.

[An4ximandros]

It's not the developers who decide how a game should be played. It's we the players.

Dead wrong. It's the devs that make them game, it's the devs that make the rules. You have no power over that, nor should you.

[BloodEagle]

It's not the developers who decide how a game should be played. It's we the players.

Dead wrong. It's the devs that make them game, it's the devs that make the rules. You have no power over that, nor should you.

The developer creates a space of possibilities, the player explores it.

The developer can encourage how a game is played, but can rarely enforce it.

You're confusing the underlying mechanics with agency.

That being said, players can (and do) change the rules of many games to better suit them.

[MatthTheGeek]

The developer can encourage how a game is played, but can rarely enforce it.

Ya, I guess EVE proved that just right. Devs eventually gave up.

[TrashMan]

The developer creates a space of possibilities, the player explores it.

The developer can encourage how a game is played, but can rarely enforce it.

I don't see what enforcement has to do with anything. (in this case, with being "right" or "wrong")

That being said, players can (and do) change the rules of many games to better suit them.

That's why modding exists.
But that has no bearing on it being correct.

[Scourge of Ages]

Hey look, there's a whole tumblr devoted to playing games in ways that were not intended: http://nowrongwaytoplay.tumblr.com/

Playing as a pacifist-illusionist in Skyrim? Playing The Legend of Zelda (the first one) with no sword? Playing the Sims 3 without a home? All within the original creator's games, all without mods (I assume), and all very different from what may have been intended.

[AdmiralRalwood]

The developer creates a space of possibilities, the player explores it.

The developer can encourage how a game is played, but can rarely enforce it.

I don't see what enforcement has to do with anything. (in this case, with being "right" or "wrong")

If nothing stops you from doing something, it's not the wrong way to play the game. Period.

That being said, players can (and do) change the rules of many games to better suit them.

That's why modding exists.
But that has no bearing on it being correct.

"Changing the rules of the game" != "Modding the game".

[Lorric]

Why do I want it?

That is the question I ask myself when purchasing anything. What the maker intended it to be used for is irrelevant to me. Even the smallest of children can be seen engaging in this concept when they shun the toy for the box it came in. They're not bothered about the toy, but they see some fun to be had with the big box.

I play games the way I want to. A good example is the Elimination game mode in Timesplitters 2 and Timesplitters Future Perfect. These are FPS games, and the way to win is to be the last man standing. So the easiest way to win is simply to run and hide while everyone slaughters each other, then clean up what's left. I like having lives more than standard deathmatch type stuff. But engaging in battle is simply counterproductive. So I came up with a workaround, and sank many many hours into my new version of the game.

As normal, when people run out of lives, they are eliminated, until one person is left. You can have up to 10 bots in play with you. So if it's me and 10 bots, what I do is the first person eliminated, their score is their number of kills. The second person eliminated is their number of kills X2. The 3rd person eliminated is their number of kills X3. And so on, with the last person standing getting their kills X11. So it's quite possible for instance to be the last man standing but have 4th place win thanks to a monster kill count. So you have to balance survival with killing. It's great fun, a normal deathmatch you just run around trying to kill with little regard for your own safety, but this way, it really matters.

[SypheDMar]

I am honestly quite surprised at the number of people who believe that there is a right way to play a game. I'm also relieved to see all those willing to defend the player as the ultimate decider. I'm hoping that those who thought otherwise have been convinced to think differently, but if that hasn't happened yet, we can agree to disagree.

I don't really have anything further to add to the argument since everything I can think of regarding how-to-play has been said already.

So back on topic, I've very briefly mentioned Turbo Mode in the opening post. In short, it is the developers of the mod creating a mode so extreme that it is "anti-competitive". Here's the video that started it all:

[Lorric]

I am honestly quite surprised at the number of people who believe that there is a right way to play a game. I'm also relieved to see all those willing to defend the player as the ultimate decider.

I'm surprised the viewpoint exists at all. It's not a question I've ever seen come up before. I delight in playing my games my way. And in squeezing as much replay value as possible out of them. Of course, usually I and the maker are one in the way they made it and I play it, but that is still because I choose to play it that way.

[TrashMan]

If nothing stops you from doing something, it's not the wrong way to play the game. Period.

Again, there is no connection between something being enforced and being right/wrong.

No one is enforcing a "don't wear underware on your head" rule, it's still wrong.

"Changing the rules of the game" != "Modding the game".

Actually it is.
Unless you are referring to self-made "rules" that aren't hard-coded.
Like "I will play the game without using the gun".

[TrashMan]

I am honestly quite surprised at the number of people who believe that there is a right way to play a game.

Of cource there is.
But that can mean something or it can mean nothing.
If you're having that much fun, does it matter to you if you are "right" or not?

It's kinda like the objective vs. subjective morality thing. You either believe it exists or it doesn't. Yet ultimatively it affects little. For me, I see it as a factual thing. Like color. That thee is green. Does it matter at all when I'm climbing it? Not really. Yet it's still a factual thing.

After my 3rd playtrough of Crysis I modded the game to allow mroe weapons. I changed the balance a little. It was a "wrong" way to play...but I didn't care. Because being right or wrong in that case was utterly irelevant.

[Scourge of Ages]

Unless you are referring to self-made "rules" that aren't hard-coded.
Like "I will play the game without using the gun".

That is exactly what we're referring to. That you can play a game just a different way within the confines of the way it's built, and enjoy it multiple different ways, many of which were not intended.
But again, "not intended" is not the same thing as "wrong".

[MatthTheGeek]

I guess you can also play Deus Ex while killing people. But where's the fun in that.

[Phantom Hoover]

augmented legs, regen and dragon's tooth mother****er

[AdmiralRalwood]

If nothing stops you from doing something, it's not the wrong way to play the game. Period.

Again, there is no connection between something being enforced and being right/wrong.

In the real world, yes, there is no connection between enforcement and morality. This is the world of video games, however.

No one is enforcing a "don't wear underware on your head" rule, it's still wrong.

Why?

[TrashMan]

Again, there is no connection between something being enforced and being right/wrong.

In the real world, yes, there is no connection between enforcement and morality. This is the world of video games, however.

Since when is there a connection in videogames?

Why?

Probably because it's UNDERweare. Made to be worn under your cloths and not on your head.

[AdmiralRalwood]

Probably because it's UNDERweare. Made to be worn under your cloths and not on your head.

Yes... and in the real world, that might be relevant.

[SypheDMar]

Today's the release date!


For those who want to try it out (requires you to have a 2 GB or less SD card):

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/r4nca2sv6fcqx/3.0%20Mirror%20%5BOff-Site%5D

Download the noHomebrew version.

Just unzip it directly into your SD card, insert SD card into your Wii, go to the Stage Builder in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and Project M should load. No modding required.

[Scourge of Ages]

Neat! Downloading now.

Can I use my current Wii SD card, the one with all my saves and junk, or could there be potential complications?