[fightermedic]

the boring, non challenging parts of FREDding. The briefings and debriefings, the mission chatter, that sort of thing. It's tedious, non creative, non challenging and can take a lot of time and effort, can be frustratingly buggy for something that seems so straightforward, and then, given that  it's often the main way the player interacts with the mission outside of actually playing it, it's often heavily criticised (especially when written by non-native English speakers).

i think you just nailed it

[Rodo]

I have no problem making those, It's boring but doable.

The part that bugs me is when your messages are either spoken too fast or too slow and no matter how much you change it, it never is quite right (lack of audio doesn't help but there's not much I can do about that).

My messages always run between 4-6 seconds, depending on the length of the text to display.
Another measure I take is never putting more than two lines of full text on the message window, if a message is bigger than that it must be splitted into two, or shortened down someway.
And for last, text should always be rechecked every once in a while, you never know if you'll suddenly have a moment of brightness in the future and come up with a way to shorten the message and deliver the same content at the same time.

[ssmit132]

To me, the main things that I'm worried about if I attempted to create a campaign would be to ensure that I made something that is enjoyable for people to play, and has at least some sort of interesting story behind it - not necessarily story-driven, but more than just "go in and blow up everything with red brackets". Especially since I would prefer to do something in an original universe rather than in the FreeSpace universe. I think another concern I would have is to make sure everything is well-balanced.

I don't have a problem with putting a mod pack together or some of the more technical aspects of FREDing (I could probably pick up what I need easily in there), though - I've actually played around with it quite a bit over the years that I've owned FreeSpace 2. I do have story and gameplay ideas that I would like to try, but I haven't sat down and seriously planned to do anything yet.

Oh, and I'd also be worried about if I might lose interest in completing it somewhere down the line. I have had a bit of a problem in general with that before. Of course, though, that's probably out of scope of what you were asking!

[Rheyah]

the boring, non challenging parts of FREDding. The briefings and debriefings, the mission chatter, that sort of thing. It's tedious, non creative, non challenging and can take a lot of time and effort, can be frustratingly buggy for something that seems so straightforward, and then, given that  it's often the main way the player interacts with the mission outside of actually playing it, it's often heavily criticised (especially when written by non-native English speakers).

i think you just nailed it

Without being harsh, more often than not it is those aspects of the game which have impact.  A plot is not a series of events followed one after another involving ever bigger ships and bigger beams.  Some of the best missions in the two retail campaigns were those missions where the briefing intentionally mislead you.  The debriefing is often where the loss of a ship has the most impact.  Good chatter in game either builds character or informs the player.

Experienced FREDers may consider it boring, but people like myself do not.  That's because we are storytellers and we want to build character, maintain tension, intrigue and suspense.  There are lots of wonderfully FREDed missions out there where wave after wave of suicidal enemies slam into your impeccably guarded convoy.  Since they have not written the character's motivations for the other side out properly (or they are so vague as not to be relevant) this is almost inevitable since you do not value the viewpoint of the faction.

As an example, witness the endless waves of kamikaze Ulysses masquerading as pirates.  Bear in mind that not only does this make no sense (the Ulysses was a borderline experimental craft when it was introduced) but doesn't even fit the idea of what pirates do!

I think if you look at it objectively, writing dialogue that not only sounds convincing but also conveys the manner of the mission is actually harder than throwing together a few FRED events and making a ship warp from one place to another.  FRED events either work or they don't.  Writing has a hell of a lot of breathing room to screw things up.  That is not to say you can't do spectacular things with FRED (Vassago's Dirge comes to mind for both timing and use of proper FREDing) but writing is a lot harder than people make it out to be.  Writing is the reason Inferno was superceded by Blue Planet and I suspect it will be the reason Blue Planet will be superceded by whatever campaign comes after.

[Shadow DS]

I think if you look at it objectively, writing dialogue that not only sounds convincing but also conveys the manner of the mission is actually harder than throwing together a few FRED events and making a ship warp from one place to another.  FRED events either work or they don't.  Writing has a hell of a lot of breathing room to screw things up.

Agreed.
Though my knowledge of Fred is moderate at best, writing is what primarily makes the campaign that much harder. I sometimes stare at my outline drafts for each mission wondering if it’s release worthy. I personally love to write but I want to make sure that what I am writing is truly good enough for the community. No writer wants to release a work that they themselves are not happy with.

Having someone to bounce ideas off of does help but my personal experience with this aspect is that it’s almost as hard to find someone who would be willing to not only brainstorm with you but also critique and offer alternatives when applicable. It often ends up with me fighting with my self about plot lines and ideas.

[Axem]

Lots of great stuff here. I feel as though there's a lot of great stuff that just doesn't quite clear the threshold from "pipe dream" to "realized dream". Whether this be to "can't quite write dialog" to "can't quite imagine how to FRED this". As well, active feedback from other people, whether its to test or bounce ideas off of people seems to be another thing we're all looking for.

Just randomly pitching an idea here, what if we tried to set up a monthly or bi-monthly FREDder's workshop on IRC or something (could just crash #freespace). The some specific Saturday or Sunday where FREDders (or anyone else) pile in to seek feedback on ideas and stuff. I've always found that work always seems to get done easier if you're working with other people working (doesn't even have to be the same thing as you).

[Lorric]

So far, I've rather enjoyed the writing aspect. It can be tedious making it work, but otherwise I've found it a positive. It feels rewarding to me to get my characters to talk even if the process to get there is tedious and time consuming.

[Goober5000]

Though my knowledge of Fred is moderate at best, writing is what primarily makes the campaign that much harder. I sometimes stare at my outline drafts for each mission wondering if it’s release worthy. I personally love to write but I want to make sure that what I am writing is truly good enough for the community. No writer wants to release a work that they themselves are not happy with.

Consider releasing it anyway.  Some people will have fun playing it, and some other people might be willing to critique it and give you advice.  And if it's utterly terrible, you might end up gaining notoriety anyway.  Look at SGWP2.

Just randomly pitching an idea here, what if we tried to set up a monthly or bi-monthly FREDder's workshop on IRC or something (could just crash #freespace). The some specific Saturday or Sunday where FREDders (or anyone else) pile in to seek feedback on ideas and stuff. I've always found that work always seems to get done easier if you're working with other people working (doesn't even have to be the same thing as you).

I think that's a great idea.  I'd probably pop in every now and then.

[Lorric]

I've been thinking about me and what problems I have. Aside from things like real life and not being inspired, which it looks like a lot of people have the same problem, amusingly, right now, any WoD related inspiration is going into Spoon's forum game. (My campaign is for Wings of Dawn.)

But FRED problems, aside from the problems of being a novice FREDder, I would say the biggest problem for me has been coming up with mission ideas. Or how to translate an idea into reality. I've also often thought of something, only to be stopped by the limitations of what I am able to use for this campaign.

I have been pondering lately whether I should just say "**** it" with some things, and make some missions where the player is still in his/her fighter along with allies, and is magically restored to full health along with all damaged/destroyed wingmen/allies that carry over to the next mission. I am now definitely leaning in the direction of doing so.

[Lorric]

Lots of great stuff here. I feel as though there's a lot of great stuff that just doesn't quite clear the threshold from "pipe dream" to "realized dream". Whether this be to "can't quite write dialog" to "can't quite imagine how to FRED this". As well, active feedback from other people, whether its to test or bounce ideas off of people seems to be another thing we're all looking for.

Just randomly pitching an idea here, what if we tried to set up a monthly or bi-monthly FREDder's workshop on IRC or something (could just crash #freespace). The some specific Saturday or Sunday where FREDders (or anyone else) pile in to seek feedback on ideas and stuff. I've always found that work always seems to get done easier if you're working with other people working (doesn't even have to be the same thing as you).

I like this idea, but I would very strongly suggest not using IRC, first because people will be less likely to know it's happening, but much more importantly because all the information will be lost. On the forum, it will be preserved.

[Axem]

I disagree. The real time and fluid nature of IRC would probably help with the speed and effectiveness of the feedback people want. What I'm gunning for is to create an atmosphere where a bunch of random people come together for one weekend to work on their campaigns and mods. Going on IRC and seeing the real time chat of people discussing ideas might help engage or inspire. IRC is a much faster and free-form tool than the forum that would help kick start those creative juices.

[mjn.mixael]

Just randomly pitching an idea here, what if we tried to set up a monthly or bi-monthly FREDder's workshop on IRC or something (could just crash #freespace). The some specific Saturday or Sunday where FREDders (or anyone else) pile in to seek feedback on ideas and stuff. I've always found that work always seems to get done easier if you're working with other people working (doesn't even have to be the same thing as you).

yusplz!

Working alongside others also working might get me motivated to make FRED progress!

[Lorric]

I disagree. The real time and fluid nature of IRC would probably help with the speed and effectiveness of the feedback people want. What I'm gunning for is to create an atmosphere where a bunch of random people come together for one weekend to work on their campaigns and mods. Going on IRC and seeing the real time chat of people discussing ideas might help engage or inspire. IRC is a much faster and free-form tool than the forum that would help kick start those creative juices.

Why can't they come together here on the forum? Coming in late you'll miss stuff on IRC. Maybe it can inspire others in the future. I really think it should be here on the forum. Of course IRC is better than nothing if it must be that way, but I think it would be a travesty if it is lost. You also can't go back to check on something that was said. Threads on here can be "real time" and fast paced.

[Axem]

We could post a log (as a separate txt file or pastebin link) if people really wanted to read stuff like that.

[AdmiralRalwood]

We could post a log (as a separate txt file or pastebin link) if people really wanted to read stuff like that.

Quite; I can guarantee that there are lots of people logging what goes on in IRC.

[Boomer20]

Quite noobish, what is IRC.
Also I don't know if its been suggested. But what about having a section in the newsletter on say FREDing how to (how to make a simple smooth cut scene etc.) I know there are some on the wiki but they are pretty limited and IIRC the cut scene one as an example just explains what each sexp does.
You could have this section on occasion instead of the campaign review as something different.
Just a possibility.

[Lorric]

We could post a log (as a separate txt file or pastebin link) if people really wanted to read stuff like that.

I'd still prefer it to be here on HLP, but that would solve my main problem.

[Axem]

Quite noobish, what is IRC.
Also I don't know if its been suggested. But what about having a section in the newsletter on say FREDing how to (how to make a simple smooth cut scene etc.) I know there are some on the wiki but they are pretty limited and IIRC the cut scene one as an example just explains what each sexp does.
You could have this section on occasion instead of the campaign review as something different.
Just a possibility.

IRC is like multiplayer notepad. It's real time chat with people in different channels dedicated to specific topics. You can use a dedicated IRC client (like mIRC or XChat) or use mibbit to connect right through your browser.

Check the top bar under HLP -> IRC -> Mibbit Links -> #channel to instantly get connected.

Also as to your second part, that is one sort of idea I have for the newsletter. I'm thinking every month it'll rotate between a campaign review, FREDding tips/tutorial, and an interview with awesomely cool people.

[Boomer20]

Thanks I'll look into it now.

Also as to your second part, that is one sort of idea I have for the newsletter. I'm thinking every month it'll rotate between a campaign review, FREDding tips/tutorial, and an interview with awesomely cool people.

Sounds like an interesting rotation.

[Shadow DS]

Consider releasing it anyway.  Some people will have fun playing it, and some other people might be willing to critique it and give you advice.  And if it's utterly terrible, you might end up gaining notoriety anyway.  Look at SGWP2.

I am working towards doing so. Just need to finish cleaning up the first part of the story and assets and release it as a act.

Just randomly pitching an idea here, what if we tried to set up a monthly or bi-monthly FREDder's workshop on IRC or something (could just crash #freespace). The some specific Saturday or Sunday where FREDders (or anyone else) pile in to seek feedback on ideas and stuff. I've always found that work always seems to get done easier if you're working with other people working (doesn't even have to be the same thing as you).

I would be for that but i share the same concerns as Lorric as my work schedule is different every day and every week but I am willing to give it a go.