Author Topic: Is fredding a form of art?  (Read 10428 times)

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Offline Lorric

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
this and where is Snuffy???????????????????????
Dumb tradition that I REFUSE to take part in.
You hear me?
DUMB.
mwahahahaha :drevil:

damn those mod powers :p
Second time I've seen that done.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
So you're saying that a mission can be a piece of art, yes? So that would make FREDding an art form, no?

FRED is the block of unfinished marble you ordered. It can only become art through the use of FS2 to make it so.

Assuming FS2 doesn't bug out and crack Venus De Milo's arms off again.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
mwahahahaha :drevil:
Moooongooooosseee!

YOU FORCED MY HAND
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
FRED is the block of unfinished marble you ordered. It can only become art through the use of FS2 to make it so.

Assuming FS2 doesn't bug out and crack Venus De Milo's arms off again.
The question isn't whether or not FRED is art, the question is whether or not FREDding is an art form. To use your analogy, it's saying that sculpting is a form of art, while the sculpture is the piece of art it creates.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
The question isn't whether or not FRED is art, the question is whether or not FREDding is an art form. To use your analogy, it's saying that sculpting is a form of art, while the sculpture is the piece of art it creates.

And in that analogy, FS2 is still the art form, and FRED's files that it runs is still raw materials.

Fredding is igneous rock production.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
mwahahahaha :drevil:
Moooongooooosseee!

YOU FORCED MY HAND

Fascist! Stifling my free speech! Just because you don't like the results, you just destroy them. That's art all right. The art of BEING A JERKY MCJERKY PANTS FACE!

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
The question isn't whether or not FRED is art, the question is whether or not FREDding is an art form. To use your analogy, it's saying that sculpting is a form of art, while the sculpture is the piece of art it creates.

And in that analogy, FS2 is still the art form, and FRED's files that it runs is still raw materials.

Fredding is igneous rock production.
:wtf: I don't even know where to begin with how wrong that is...
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
Fascist! Stifling my free speech! Just because you don't like the results, you just destroy them. That's art all right. The art of BEING A JERKY MCJERKY PANTS FACE!
You wouldn't know art if it HIT YOU IN THE FACE. And you would APOLOGIZE TO IT you CANADIAN.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
I accept your apology. :)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
I accept your apology. :)


(This is art btw)
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
:wtf: I don't even know where to begin with how wrong that is...

Fredding cannot produce art and cannot be an art form because of it. All it can produce is FS2 files, which require FS2 to actually become any possible kind of art. One does not even know with certainty whether an FS2 file and what is done in FRED will even work, save by using FS2 to check.

Fredding is the production of raw materials which are combined with other raw materials in the forum of audio and graphical and AI and everything else to generate the artistic experience of the end consumer. Art happens inside the game engine; fredding in a vacuum creates nothing.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
Sooo... modding is an artform, FREDing by itself is not?
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
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  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: Is fredding a form of art?
Sooo... modding is an artform, FREDing by itself is not?

That'd be pretty accurate, yeah.

Mind I'm not sure I actually believe any of this, it just strikes me as the least-contradictory position if you start from the position that art is in the eye of one who beholds a completed work.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
FREDing can be art... but what Axem does is an abomination....
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?

Sooo... modding is an artform, FREDing by itself is not?

That'd be pretty accurate, yeah.

Mind I'm not sure I actually believe any of this, it just strikes me as the least-contradictory position if you start from the position that art is in the eye of one who beholds a completed work.

Therefore an artisan is really someone that only exists as a kind of holographic mirage to those that actually "consume" the pieces of art?


I am giggling at all the insanities over here. Might as well ask if "sculpting is a form of art".  Not only the grammar is weird, the answer should be obvious.

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
Question: Is math art? Is programming art? Is composing music art?

If yes, then FREDding is art.

See:
A Mathematician's Lament

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
Therefore an artisan is really someone that only exists as a kind of holographic mirage to those that actually "consume" the pieces of art?

They're less than that. Aside from the evidence of the work's existence and possibly other works' existence I'd wager you've seen any other sign the artist exists for well under half the works you've encountered.

Artists who don't perform are not real people to most of the end users, which is why acting pays big bucks and writing doesn't.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
I don't think it has to be a "completed" work to the end-user for it to be art.

Someone who loves composing music is producing art, even if it's just for his or herself. Creative writing is an artform in the same vein. Likewise, someone who is FREDding is producing art as long as there is artistic merit; just like how a stack of assorted papers can be considered art, or a blank canvas with near-random black ink splashed on it.

Art has very simple criteria to fill. To be considered art, one person must consider said work to be art. If Axem considers FREDding to be an artform akin to painting, then FREDding is art.

Having FREDded myself, I am simply amazed at Axem's artistic ingenuity. It's like comparing a three-year old drawing a stick figure to Da Vinci drawing a man; you can't compare!

e: To clarify, I am not denying that artisans aren't recognized. I'm saying that fame and art are independent of each other.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
FRED is a tool, like a hammer or pencil or keyboard.

Fredding, the act of taking an idea and turning it into a completed mission, is not functionally different to the process a sculpter goes through when turning clay into a sculpture.

So, is fredding art? No. Are finished missions art? Yes. Are Fredders artists? Yes, absolutely.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Is fredding a form of art?
Question: Is math art? Is programming art? Is composing music art?

If yes, then FREDding is art.

See:
A Mathematician's Lament
Well, math definitely is art. What else could all those infinite-dimensional spaces, "wheel" algebras (in which you can divide by zero, and that's not the weirdest thing about them) and infinitely recrusive geometric forms be good for? :)