[Lorric]

I haven't played either so I can't comment. But the idea of using this doesn't appeal to me anyway. Thanks for the information though.

[The E]

However, it is a branching campaign. Maybe I could do something like give the player a briefing which presents two or three plans for a mission, and the player gets to choose which one to go with, leading to two or three different missions.

You actually couldn't do that, since there's no UI for that. The briefing screens, simply put, are not set up to allow that sort of interaction. There are two ways to do branching campaigns in FS2: One, the retail SOC loop way, which presents a binary choice to the player. Two, the way most branching campaigns have done it, by evaluating in-mission events.

When we were doing WiH: Tenebra, this was a big issue that ultimately led to the creation of the dreamscape environment, a mission that allowed interactivity on a greater scale (even if we didn't end up using it to that end due to time constraints).

Regarding the topic of the thread: I strongly recommend that you play WiH, if only so that you can see what sort of things can be done with a fully scripted protagonist. 

[mjn.mixael]

I wonder if you could use axem's mouse selection script (heavily modified) to make a menu out of a mission...

[The E]

I don't see why not. In essence, this is what the mainhall mission script did ages ago; this would just be a matter of translating the user's choices into a sexp variable and using that to determine which mission to branch to.

[General Battuta]

You definitely could - it's just the Dreamscape or Bem Cavalgar with a better interface. You'd have to have loading screens before and after but c'est la vie.

[Goober5000]

I wonder if you could use axem's mouse selection script (heavily modified) to make a menu out of a mission...

This is, in fact, how Scroll intends to allow the user to choose a campaign fork.

[Lorric]

However, it is a branching campaign. Maybe I could do something like give the player a briefing which presents two or three plans for a mission, and the player gets to choose which one to go with, leading to two or three different missions.

You actually couldn't do that, since there's no UI for that. The briefing screens, simply put, are not set up to allow that sort of interaction. There are two ways to do branching campaigns in FS2: One, the retail SOC loop way, which presents a binary choice to the player. Two, the way most branching campaigns have done it, by evaluating in-mission events.

When we were doing WiH: Tenebra, this was a big issue that ultimately led to the creation of the dreamscape environment, a mission that allowed interactivity on a greater scale (even if we didn't end up using it to that end due to time constraints).

Regarding the topic of the thread: I strongly recommend that you play WiH, if only so that you can see what sort of things can be done with a fully scripted protagonist.

The missions are loose in my campaign. Not locked into a campaign. You play them through the techroom. So the first one would introduce the options, and tell you which mission to play for the choice you made.

[Lorric]

I'll explain how I would envision this going, as I've been thinking about the idea, and I wouldn't mind using it.

My debriefings tell you which mission to play next. Or that you've lost. So let's imagine the player has been told to go to Lorric12a.

So the player loads up Lorric12a from the techroom. The briefing in Lorric12a would tell you what the goal is, and tell you that you have some freedom on how to accomplish that goal. You'd click commit, and you and your forces would be around the base or something before the attack, and two or three people would present you with ideas for how to accomplish the goal, and maybe discuss/argue it amongst themselves for a bit, then you'd go to the debriefing and it would say something like...

"The choice is yours. If you want to go with X's plan, go to Lorric12b. If you want to go with Y's plan, go to Lorric12c. If you want to go with Z's plan, go to Lorric12d."

[The E]

Ummm

You do realize that setting up a branching campaign (like, proper campaign) is not actually that hard, and does wonders for immersion? Also, you can do stuff in a campaign that you simply can't in single missions (like keeping track of certain things between missions).

[Lorric]

Ummm

You do realize that setting up a branching campaign (like, proper campaign) is not actually that hard, and does wonders for immersion? Also, you can do stuff in a campaign that you simply can't in single missions (like keeping track of certain things between missions).

The main problem I have is the difficulty in going back along the branches. You have to play the whole thing again just to play those extra missions. And there would be a lot of extra missions. It's much easier to replay if they're all there. It would also be a lot of unnecessary extra work I think, but even if I could just make it happen in the blink of an eye, I'd still prefer to keep the missions loose.

[The E]

If you think that's a good idea, sure, go ahead. I happen to think that it's not optimal, that the campaign format is the best way to ensure your narrative gets told the way you meant to tell it, and that your goal should be to create an experience people would want to replay to experience the possible branches, but it's your campaign.

Also, there's always the techroom and CTRL-SHIFT-S for those people who want to play the branches they've missed the first time through.

[Lorric]

If you think that's a good idea, sure, go ahead. I happen to think that it's not optimal, that the campaign format is the best way to ensure your narrative gets told the way you meant to tell it, and that your goal should be to create an experience people would want to replay to experience the possible branches, but it's your campaign.

Also, there's always the techroom and CTRL-SHIFT-S for those people who want to play the branches they've missed the first time through.

Then they'd need my prompting to know where to go, so we'd be back to needing the missions loose again.

It can always be looked at again if I finish the project whether to package them into a campaign, if it would work. Like my idea about choosing one of 3 mission plans, would that be possible in a campaign file?

[Phantom Hoover]

Stick the filename for the next branch in Recommendations, nobody cares what's in there.

[Axem]

Or construct a hub type mission with cargo containers (or some other object) that get revealed for each new mission you unlock. Complete a mission, get sent back to the hub with new missions unlocked. So in theory you could go back and unlock new missions or continue on in a single path.

[An4ximandros]

Off-topic:

With a Hub type mission I keep wondering if it would be possible to model a giant hall room (like the FS2 Main menu) and make you stuck looking in the direction of the gates (which you shoot with a special weapon) to trigger going to different rooms... where you can trigger talking to others or get a briefing and then get sent to the hangar to take off in a SEXPd take off sequence.

Did the engine ever get support for animated stuff that would need? (Unless you cheat and make the doors ships that 'move' when you 'shoot' them with the mentioned special ammo or use Squad commands to order it to 'relocate')

This was originally an idea that turned into thinking out loud... :\

[Lorric]

Or construct a hub type mission with cargo containers (or some other object) that get revealed for each new mission you unlock. Complete a mission, get sent back to the hub with new missions unlocked. So in theory you could go back and unlock new missions or continue on in a single path.

I have no idea how such a thing would work. It's potentially an interesting idea, it makes me think of Crash Team Racing and Crash Bash. Wouldn't it be faster for the player to just go to the techroom my way though, it would take longer to load the hub mission and probably longer for the player to choose a mission too. But I do like the idea of filling it up with all the paths. Probably too complicated for me anyway though.

[Axem]

Or construct a hub type mission with cargo containers (or some other object) that get revealed for each new mission you unlock. Complete a mission, get sent back to the hub with new missions unlocked. So in theory you could go back and unlock new missions or continue on in a single path.

I have no idea how such a thing would work. It's potentially an interesting idea, it makes me think of Crash Team Racing and Crash Bash. Wouldn't it be faster for the player to just go to the techroom my way though, it would take longer to load the hub mission and probably longer for the player to choose a mission too. But I do like the idea of filling it up with all the paths. Probably too complicated for me anyway though.

A simple hub mission would be very small and quick to load. It would probably save the player time since the amount of steps to get to the next mission is greatly reduced (as well greatly increasing user-friendliness and making your mod seem more professional).

With a well constructed hub mission, the steps are Mission -> Hub -> Mission.

With going to the tech room all the time, the steps are Mission -> Mainhall -> Tech Room -> Mission Simulator -> Remember Which Mission I'm Supposed To Take -> Mission

Just as a thought experiment, I built a very rough mockup of how I envision such a hub to be.



Basically each container is cued to campaign-persistent variables that get activated in previous missions. I sort of used the different colored containers to indicate if this mission would branch or not (1 branches to 2a and 2b, 3b branches to 4b and 4c). To go to a new mission, you just target a container and press something like Primary Fire or Spacebar. Then the mission ends and the game shuffles you to that mission, and then back to the hub after its over. As well you could have training messages that pop up when you target a container to remind you which mission is "the one where X happens."

Its a bit more work, but makes the experience so more seamless.

[Lorric]

Maybe we could talk about this if I ever complete the project. I like what I see. But are you still blocking people from sending you pms?

[Axem]

Shooould work now. I can be hilariously bad (read: never reply to) at responding to PMs, so beware!

[Lorric]

Shooould work now. I can be hilariously bad (read: never reply to) at responding to PMs, so beware!

Hmmm... well, it will be a long time in the future anyway.

Once the missions start piling up though, won't the hub get hard to deal with when you're trying to find this one box in like 20 of them, when you could just go to the techroom and make the selection quick and easy. I'm going to time this, how long it takes me to go from the debrief to the techroom to the selection...

7 seconds. It's so quick and easy. And I wasn't trying to be fast or anything either, just doing it naturally. The hub might not have even loaded in by then. It would be a lot easier to look over the missions in the techroom than in the hub too, as you'd have to select them one by one, while the techroom, they'd all be there in front of you. It might be something the player has to get used to a little bit at first, but they'd soon be zooming through to the next mission.