Author Topic: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)  (Read 10791 times)

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Offline InsaneBaron

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Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
[edited by original poster due to disrespectful implications]
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 07:39:50 am by InsaneBaron »
Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move." - Captain America

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Offline karajorma

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
Well, it's time to put things in a nutshell and move on.

The Christian goal for the family: Parents marry and stay married, for the sake of providing care for their kids. No nonsense involved.

The Atheist goal: people hook up and break up. Kids have no garantee of a secure family. Unwanted kids are executed for being born (compare any other genocide to this?)

Both sides work, with a mix of success and failure, to acheive the goal.

To me, the choice is a no-brainer.

Since when is that the atheists goal?

And why are you trying to deflect the argument having been proved wrong over the whole HIV thing?

Be very careful, as I'd claim that last post is both offensive to atheists and trolling. It's completely at odds with your earlier complaints about the lack of religious tolerance on this board.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
That's... possibly the most insane summary of anything I've heard for a few months...

The discussion was going so well, then someone topped up the ink in the Stereotyper...

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
Well, it's time to put things in a nutshell and move on.

The Christian goal for the family: Parents marry and stay married, for the sake of providing care for their kids. No nonsense involved.

The Atheist goal:


FTFY
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
Yeah, it was a good thread until then. So I'm going to split this post off and leave the new thread open for now so that Insane Baron can either justify or apologise for that last post.

Until he replies, please let's not dogpile on him as I suspect most of us who would do that already know why he is wrong.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
In case the reason for an apology or a defense is not immediately evident:

You just described every atheist on HLP (or more accurately, anyone non-Christian by way of conspicuous omission) as incapable or unwilling to marry or have a family, incapable of maintaining any family they may start, and automatically pro-choice.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
Whilst I don't want to dogpile, what angers me is the 'Unwanted kids are executed for being born' thing, that's not accusing atheists of being pro-choice, it's accusing them of infanticide. Whilst it does happen in the world, China had a problem with the one-child law and this, considering there are atheists on this site with children whom they love deeply, I definitely think that statement needs to be addressed.

  

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
Well, it's time to put things in a nutshell and move on.

The Christian goal for the family: Parents marry and stay married, for the sake of providing care for their kids. No nonsense involved.

The Atheist goal: people hook up and break up. Kids have no garantee of a secure family. Unwanted kids are executed for being born (compare any other genocide to this?)

Both sides work, with a mix of success and failure, to acheive the goal.

To me, the choice is a no-brainer.

Holy ****, what the ****?

And you seemed so reasonable. This undermines just about everything you've said on this forum to date.

e: sorry Kara, hadn't seen your post. Still.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 12:45:48 am by General Battuta »

 

Offline Zacam

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
I don't even


I doubt I can convey my disappointment adequately.

Any apology would just strike me as shallow and meaningless, but I'll allow for the effort of one anyway.
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Offline Flak

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
I think it is a little narrow. When an (ideally) Christian couple married, it is more than about children. It is also about the marriage in itself, and finding true love. Of course I am talking about ideals here. How many so called Christian couples are actually worse off than Atheists ever did? Let's not get to that.

Also, Atheists have lots of reason for that. I am sure many of them don't get married for money or for their lust and then break up when they are bored. I am sure there are at least a few Atheist couples that are at least decent.

And how many other religions treat marriage at least as a partially religious thing other than Christianity, Muslim, and Judaism?

I don't think we should be too stereotypical. Humans are more complex than even the most sophisticated machines. And please forgive my sarcasm

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
Yeah, I bet there are few of those atheists who are maybe at least decent. At least a bit. Kinda decent. Maybe...morally...okay. If we're pushing it.

Find me a Christian couple with a marriage nearly as long-lasting or steady as my relationship Atheist Sex And Abortion Factory under the same remarkable conditions and I'll stop rolling my eyes (you won't though, so I won't have to stop)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
(proportionally speaking ofc)

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
I think it is a little narrow. When an (ideally) Christian couple married, it is more than about children. It is also about the marriage in itself, and finding true love.

Actually, given the whole no sex before marriage thing, I think you'll find that there are quite a few Christians who do get married at least partially because of lust. I don't think it's a coincidence that in general people who believe true love waits get married a) sooner after the beginning of a relationship and b) younger in general than people who are in a sexual relationship.

Hell, you only need to read the literature sexual abstinence groups publish to see it's all about lust. Almost the entire argument is that you should wait for marriage because it somehow makes sex better.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 01:40:36 am by karajorma »
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Offline Flak

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
That is why I said 'Ideally'. How many things in the world are 'ideal' anyway. But then, I don't share the Catholic's view of seeing sexuality as a sin. I believe that sexuality is a gift of God (Well, are they saying that when humanity is cleansed from sin, then humanity is going to go extinct? Or do you dream of Demolition Man-style world?).

The thing of sex only within marriage is more about being parental responsibility. But again, is sex everything in the marriage (or even in a relationship)? I personally don't think so. Yes it can be a very important part, but it is sure not everything about marriage.

Dang, I am sarcastic by default, I just can't knock it off.


 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
So why the hell do you think an atheists ideal of marriage isn't about true love then?
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Offline MrTranscend

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Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
The whole point of atheism \ agnosticism is to not subscribe to a doctrine that tels you how to live and think, allowing you to make these decisions from an individual perspective.

They can marry for any reason, whether it be because they love the person, it advances their career, or it's just a logical thing to do at the time.

Many other people who subscribe to the Christan doctrine have married for at least two of the 3 reasons I listed above.

Frankly, I don't understand why atheists get so much hate, with the rampant hypocrisy within the churches. Church girls be performing fellatio in the bathrooms and the pastor is using the tithes to roll up with a Lexus truck on 22" chrome, so... This whole 'Christian's marry for love and family' and 'don't have sex before marriage' thing don't apply half the time,

 

Offline zookeeper

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Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
When compared to the usual gradually escalating flamewars which are frustrating and no fun at all, I must say I find these kinds of unexpected trollbombs out of nowhere rather refreshing. :D

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
While I suspect that atheists can marry for a variety of reasons, the number marrying for love is probably no lower than it is for religious people. In fact, given what I said above about not feeling as strong a pressure to marry in order to have sex, I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually higher.
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Offline Flak

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
So why the hell do you think an atheists ideal of marriage isn't about true love then?

I was talking about ideal Christian marriage and not saying such thing is restricted to Christians, in fact Atheists should if you ask me. It is just not an Atheist ideal, but strictly because Atheism is really far and wide and the area to cope is much wider, and so far there is no official 'Book of Atheism' or something like that. Hell, even if it is not Atheist ideal, that doesn't meant it is impossible. This is just one thing Christians believe as a 'common grace', in other words, you don't have to be a Christian to enjoy it.

The whole point of atheism \ agnosticism is to not subscribe to a doctrine that tels you how to live and think, allowing you to make these decisions from an individual perspective.

They can marry for any reason, whether it be because they love the person, it advances their career, or it's just a logical thing to do at the time.

Many other people who subscribe to the Christan doctrine have married for at least two of the 3 reasons I listed above.

Frankly, I don't understand why atheists get so much hate, with the rampant hypocrisy within the churches. Church girls be performing fellatio in the bathrooms and the pastor is using the tithes to roll up with a Lexus truck on 22" chrome, so... This whole 'Christian's marry for love and family' and 'don't have sex before marriage' thing don't apply half the time,

Technically speaking, all sorts of people are in the church, and to be honest you people, no church in the world is really that good no matter what facade they manage to put in front to people outside. Even real believers have used their own church for personal ambitions (not just marriage). I understand that such happenings are already more than an open secret to everyone and it will be hypocrisy of the church if they attempt to cover it up (which, sad to say, some churches do). Well of course if the church is already THAT good and absolutely sinless, then they don't need redemption, and the death of Jesus means nothing for them don't you think, and anything that is built from lies instead of truth will fall sooner or later.

That is why I say it is the ideal, or in other words, the absolute highest standard that they should aim for, or the image of perfection. In reality people have their own reasons for getting married, hidden or otherwise and considering no humans are perfect. However, in John Calvin's words, believers should be in continuous process of sanctification, bringing them closer and closer to that ideals. The same goes with marriage, no matter where they start, they should stay faithful (Pun intended, but both meanings of the word applies here) and allow themselves to be guided to the right path.

Of course ideally people have sex after getting married, but with the media promoting the opposite, you have to admit, many people got carried away, even those inside the church. Not that I justify them, but just to show some of the reality that happened. One reason I personally think that Catholic priests should be allowed to get married, there is nothing in the bible saying that priests aren't allowed to get married.

People being self righteous and all? It happens all the time. And I believe the target is not just Atheists, but rather anyone that isn't them. In reality, the more you know about the truth, you should know more and more how imperfect and sinful you are, instead of how righteous you are. Going knight templar will only make it worse, if only they learn that....(facepalm)

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Re: Devastating Arguments Against Christianity (Courtesy of the Internet)
I just think Insanebaron is somewhat insulated from a world filled with atheists and has a bit of ignorance of how atheists live and what atheists think about, apart from what probably his friends, the pastor and the family, etc., tell him, all about those nasty atheists and their consecutive abortions because they just don't care, their abhorrent lust for every kinds of kinky sex, gay sex, polygamous sex, sex with animals, their lust for immoralities and depravities, fill in the amazing blanks here!

He was probably really angry because argument and then made the mistake of ragequitting after ranting what was on his mind and not before.


Just to throw out there, atheists actually have divorce rates lower than christian couples.