Author Topic: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)  (Read 20360 times)

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Offline Enioch

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
:yes:
Also the bigger the challenge the better.
DD forever!! ;7

Obviously.

I think I'll go for a political role this time. Fleet Admiral (Rtd.) Kalazonitov, Minister of Foreign Affairs, anyone?
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Re Lorric's suggestion about the private threads being unlocked post-game: I STRONGLY recommend against this. I have repeatedly participated in play-by-mail RPs and it is generally thought that revealing private communications in PvP games is the worst possible idea. It is easy for players to write things in their private faction mails that could be interpreted as highly offensive post-reveal by the other players - and that really were not originally thought to be so, either by the writer or the GM. Essentially, you might get a two-month insult conga dumped on you with little to no warning.
Noted.
Personally I'm pretty insensitive when it comes to these things and wouldn't mind reading what kind of foul plots everyone was brewing against me but different people have different sensitivities to these things. So you make a fair point.
But I suppose that's a bridge we'll cross when we get there (which is... really far away at this point in time :p)

EDIT: TEXT IN BRIGHT YELLOW

Am I wrong in this?

Gah, my eyes!

You are probably right to some degree here, but I think the problem will be alleviated somewhat by having the NPC leader around. You could also just make a general agreement within your faction to keep the quarterbacking to a minimum. Also nothing is obligating you to take orders from a fellow admiral. I also hope that the game will turn out in such a way that there will be plenty of occasions where there might not be a singular optimal action to take. (But that might be a bit too hopeful on my part? we'll see.)

EDIT: another way would be (again) to limit the information publicly avalible ... the type of a fleet could remain hidden from everyone the player commanding said fleet and any player attacking it - as to make it not supidly unpredictable for an attacking player, recon missions/probes/what-have-you could be added as action to every fleet ... but that would have to more well thought out...
While this would be ideal and lovely, I think thats starting to fall outside of the scope of the limitations a forum game has.

EDIT 2: Also, I expect you have a decent counterweight for planning to give the DD only 2 pieces on the board - first impressions of the game mechanics seem to show that fleets are the most important variables around. More fleets = more options to earn PI, new real estate, resources etc. It definitely looks like the DD can't even trade to gain power: their PI is abysmal in regards to the other factions and they'd come out the losers in every deal.

Now, of course, since I'm a DD player, me noticing perceived 'imbalances' regarding my faction first is expected (and evil and impolite and a nuisance to the other players and yourself, Spoon). Please do not consider the above a complaint, just an expression of curiosity regarding your planned approach to balancing out the factions.

UGCR is the one with 2 fleets. I'm more than certain of that. DD has 3. They also have better tech than everyone else. Which was totally counter to what they were in the first game.

UGCR just has lots and lots of bling bling. :P
What Andrew said.
Its SF&CRF 4, DD 3, UGC 2

And yeah the DD looks pretty poor from just that little list on paper. But that's not taking into account their position on the map, what real estate they start with, what plans they might be able to initate that other factions can not.
There's also the matter of leadership. SF looks pretty good on paper right? But since they have that cumbersome thing called Democracy the actions from higher up might be sluggish at times. Whereas the CEO of the UGC might not support actions that are too expensive because of greed. The DD on the other hand, lead by a single Empress not afraid to do things a bit more dirty, might get things done sooner.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
WALL OF RESPONSES

All my fears are allayed (for the time being). Will be here if you need me (say, for Excel spreadsheets that will make your life easier).
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Everyone else seems to have raised the points I wanted to raise, so I'll just say that this looks like it could be very interesting!

Let's say that [...] the 1st DD is a Carrier fleet.
Except Admiral Jason "Bombardment" Ralwood would clearly be in command of an Artillery Fleet. ;)
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Nobody going to make a mention on how this might far too complex?   :p
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Nobody going to make a mention on how this might far too complex?   :p
I thought it could do with a few extra mechanics, actually. :D
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Nobody going to make a mention on how this might far too complex?   :p

I *like* complex  :nod:

(admittedly that might be to my own detriment...)
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Nobody going to make a mention on how this might far too complex?   :p

Well, I will.  :p

The old forum game was, while complex, still simple enough that someone without much time and effort to devote to strategizing could still follow what was going on. While dedicated folks like Lorric will probably dig the complexity you've got going on here, it might be harder for those people with little time and effort to devote.

0rph3u5, Lorric and I would be interested in taking both the CRF minister positions. Do you really want that particular post? If you want to keep it, I certainly understand, but I thought I'd ask on our behalf.
"We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug."
Finian O'Toole, The Irish Times, 5 May 1994

Blue Planet: The Battle Captains: Missions starring the Admirals of BP: WiH
Frontlines 2334+2335: T-V War campaign
GVB Ammit: Vasudan strike bomber
Player-Controlled Capship Modding Tutorial

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
0rph3u5, Lorric and I would be interested in taking both the CRF minister positions. Do you really want that particular post? If you want to keep it, I certainly understand, but I thought I'd ask on our behalf.
I'll just confirm this. We were talking about it yesterday. Lepanto and I are friends and think we would work very well together in the minister positions, not just because we are friends, but because Lepanto has much experience in role playing, and the foreign minister would fit him very well we think, while the internal affairs one is about plans and strategies, which if the previous game is anything to go by would suit me.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Nobody going to make a mention on how this might far too complex?   :p

Complexity is a non-issue to me as long as there is approriate feedback, so that you have a chance to get a working knowledge of the game mechanics ...


0rph3u5, Lorric and I would be interested in taking both the CRF minister positions. Do you really want that particular post? If you want to keep it, I certainly understand, but I thought I'd ask on our behalf.
I'll just confirm this. We were talking about it yesterday. Lepanto and I are friends and think we would work very well together in the minister positions, not just because we are friends, but because Lepanto has much experience in role playing, and the foreign minister would fit him very well we think, while the internal affairs one is about plans and strategies, which if the previous game is anything to go by would suit me.

Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here by quite a stretch? As Spoon pointed out this isn't about sign-up yet... once it gets there we can talk thisover...
That of course doesn't mean that expressing interest in a certain position is pointless; actually it is a way to provide Spoon with feedback on how we sand individually to certain ideas...

(as for my stance on the specific issue: I wouldn't mind playing for another faction or in another role (although so far none of presented fleets really fits the way I like to fight my battles - Carrier fleet comes close))
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here by quite a stretch? As Spoon pointed out this isn't about sign-up yet... once it gets there we can talk thisover...
That of course doesn't mean that expressing interest in a certain position is pointless; actually it is a way to provide Spoon with feedback on how we sand individually to certain ideas...

(as for my stance on the specific issue: I wouldn't mind playing for another faction or in another role (although so far none of presented fleets really fits the way I like to fight my battles - Carrier fleet comes close))
You know the amusing thing is Lepanto said pretty much that to me. I wanted to bring this up yesterday, but he stopped me. He wanted to wait until there was an official sign up thread to do it. But now he's done it himself anyway. :)

Perhaps he was concerned because others were bringing the subject up. But I tell you this so that you know we're prepared to talk about it when the time comes if you like. Me, I was eager to make our intentions known, but it's quite alright now that they are known to wait until the positions start being given out. :nod:

And thank you for replying. :)

 

Offline Veers

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
I know this is not the recruitment thread, but I am rocking baack and forth in anticipation and joy.

Please Please Please, CRF CRF CRF, PLEASE OH PLEASE

(I want to play CRF again). :)

In other news, I need to read through in a little more detail, but at this stage, it is sounding fairly solid and is coming together nicely. Keep it up, can't wait to see this develop further!
Current Activities/Projects: Ideas and some storyline completed.

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Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
I know this is not the recruitment thread, but I am rocking baack and forth in anticipation and joy.

Please Please Please, CRF CRF CRF, PLEASE OH PLEASE

(I want to play CRF again). :)
I hope we can work together again Veers. I love the enthusiasm. :)

 

Offline ssmit132

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
I think this is turning out to be pretty good as well. And yes I know you're not recruiting Spoon but I still have some interest in joining in this time as a fleet if there's room (not sure which faction though).

 

Offline Veers

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Hmm, are we keeping or ditching the morale concept for the fleets?, tying it in with morale of the entire populace or so forth?
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
I havent found a way to keep morale without it just becoming a dull extra modifier. The CRF will get some plans involving zeal but thats about it I think.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Nobody going to make a mention on how this might far too complex?   :p

i expressed concern! admittedly i paid little attention to the first forum game, but from what i saw i did appreciate how comparatively simple the mechanics were
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Veers

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Sounds good, I'm just trying to add additional modifiers to make it more complex for no apparent reason :P

But yea, I can't see much good for it right now. Unless it was a global faction level which may assist work something like

High morale = greater production/income/war support
Less morale = less of the above, more likely to surrender etc.

Which may not fit in at all at this stage. Morale seems to be one of those fiddly things that is just out of place in nearly everything

E: 512th post, ooyea. I still have a 512 mem stick here somewhere
Current Activities/Projects: Ideas and some storyline completed.

ArmA 2&3 Mission Designer and player.


WoD - I like Crystal. <3

 

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Morale is a neat idea, but it was kinda superfluous in Forum Game 1; it wasn't really much of a separate tactical factor.
"We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug."
Finian O'Toole, The Irish Times, 5 May 1994

Blue Planet: The Battle Captains: Missions starring the Admirals of BP: WiH
Frontlines 2334+2335: T-V War campaign
GVB Ammit: Vasudan strike bomber
Player-Controlled Capship Modding Tutorial

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
The zeal speeches were nice though. :)

The trouble with morale, if you make it a minor effect, it's not very important. If you make it a major one, it has the potential to be like a train picking up speed until it's unstoppable. It should be good in a niche as a CRF special, where it can have a noticeable effect when used, but then the effect expires so it's not overpowered.