Author Topic: General forum game discussion  (Read 41154 times)

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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: General forum game discussion
morale and/or morale
A penalty to morale and morale? Well, it's certainly an idea I've never heard before...
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
morale and/or morale
A penalty to morale and morale? Well, it's certainly an idea I've never heard before...

I was meaning to say xp-gain, now fixed, ... the on-screen keyboard on my tablet usually blocks out the HLP interface, so I dont see what Im typing when Im on the road
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
I've read and considered all your posts (a while ago, but I didn't really have anything sensible to add), for now lets see how this pans out in the test game. If it leads to unsatisfying gameplay it can always be changed later.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
I'm having a bad grumpy day
So I'm going to be selifsh and do the turn tomorrow.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Triple posting~

I realize this might be completely different from what I said previously about invasion fleets. But I wasn't happy with the idea that it was either
- 1. Being able to capture a planet with a secure order, without the defenders being able to do anything about it or
- 2. Not being able to do anything at all while there still defenders around.

So instead the Invasion fleet is a presence on the tactical combat map, and can be targetted and destroyed. It'll immediately secure the planet if it can reach the indicated point on the map.
It'll be able to move 4 amount of move orders (given by the Admiral who it is attached to on the strategic map), these move orders are seperate from the admiral's normal fleet. (So two sets of orders need to be given, 1 for the Admirals normal fleet, and 1 for the Invasion fleet) (It is not allowed to use Valor)
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
I realize this might be completely different from what I said previously about invasion fleets. But I wasn't happy with the idea that it was either
- 1. Being able to capture a planet with a secure order, without the defenders being able to do anything about it or
- 2. Not being able to do anything at all while there still defenders around.

Yeah, that was confusing (see my orders post)

It is not allowed to use Valor

Awww.... man


With this change, will Invasion Fleets be altered again the in the foreseeable future or does that all depend on the combat performance this turn?


EDIT: While we are on the subject of Valour - can it be used to "jump" over a friendly fleet (like a knight in chess can)?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 10:33:23 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
So I only just now noticed that the SF EMP missiles are incorrected listed as 1-1 instead of 1-2 range. I don't know why it took me this long to notice it, but yeah. Oops.
Just know that they are in fact, 1-2 range. True fact.

With this change, will Invasion Fleets be altered again the in the foreseeable future or does that all depend on the combat performance this turn?
Probably not, but it'll depend on how this pans out, yeah.

EDIT: While we are on the subject of Valour - can it be used to "jump" over a friendly fleet (like a knight in chess can)?
No
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
Shouldn't the 2nd CRF Centre have shields?
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Shouldn't the 2nd CRF Centre have shields?
Uhm, yeah. They should have  :p
Also the UGC and CRF shouldn't still be listed as having a non-aggression pact...
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: General forum game discussion
Yo Spoon, can you explain Neutron weapons a bit?

Say I have a gun that does 1x100 damage with the Neutron keyword.

My target has 50 shields and 100 Strength. What happens if I shoot and hit? Does my target now have 10 Shields, 40 Strength? Or 0 Shields, 40 Strength? Or something else?

'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
0 and 50 in your example... if it were 100 Shields and 100 Strength the final result would be 10/90 as far as I understand it
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Neutron weapons are not super significant of a deal
with 50 shields and 100 hull, the result without neutron is 0 - 50
with neutron its 0 - 45

If the target for example had 200 shields and 100 hull, with neutron the end result would be 100 - 90
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: General forum game discussion
So what it means is that 10% of the shield points drained by Neutron weapons gets dealt as hull damage?
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: General forum game discussion
I don't even... Really, I'm confused.

What's the algorithm for shield and hull damage?
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: General forum game discussion
According to Spoons numbers neutron weapons actually add damage instead of being a piercing effect that passes through shields. They add 10% of the damage to shields to the hull damage.

So for 50 shields, 100 hull, 100 damage that means 50 shield damage and 50 hull damage. Neutron adds 10% of the shield damage for another 5 hull damage. That means 50 shield damage and 55 hull damage. Effectively 5% damage increase.

In case of the 200 shields, 100 hull, 100 damage case it's a flat 100 shield damage with added 10% of the shield damage as hull damage. Result is 10 hull damage and an effective damage of 110 which is the maximum possible increase of 10% that Neutron can to do.

That's definitely better than how I thought they work...
Here goes scripting and copy paste coding
Freespace RTS Mod
Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
Yeah. Simplest way to look at it seems to be to just say for every 10 damage a neutron weapon inflicts on shields it does 1 damage to the hull. Since shields are fully charged every turn, it's going to do some additional chip damage every turn.

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: General forum game discussion
That...actually makes sense. Thanks all.

Yeah, NW seem to be better than I'd originally thought. Consistent chipping damage in the range of single/ low double digits.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
It'll be able to move 4 amount of move orders (given by the Admiral who it is attached to on the strategic map), these move orders are seperate from the admiral's normal fleet. (So two sets of orders need to be given, 1 for the Admirals normal fleet, and 1 for the Invasion fleet) (It is not allowed to use Valor)

Just to clarify: Which orders of the Admirals Fleet do the orders to the Invasion Fleet correspond? (I can guess your answer from the post in the CRF-forum but in the interest of fair play, let's put it out here)

EDIT: Another question, if DD/UGC fleet uses its phase torpedos to damage a retreating fleet (with its centre in 11-20% range which as it disengaged with out a Retreat-order, to escape the jammer, drops to the 1-10% range), and that way destroys it's centre, is the Admiral then a awarded a perk just like in Tactical Combat?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 04:49:24 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: General forum game discussion
EDIT: Another question, if DD/UGC fleet uses its phase torpedos to damage a retreating fleet (with its centre in 11-20% range which as it disengaged with out a Retreat-order, to escape the jammer, drops to the 1-10% range), and that way destroys it's centre, is the Admiral then a awarded a perk just like in Tactical Combat?


Just kidding. Would be interested to hear the response to that myself, actually.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Holy **** I can't believe I forgot to answer this!
Sorry orz

But I like Enoich's answer, so let me just quote this for truth:

So I'm busy processing the turn, but here's a preview
Hidden Text: preview • Show
(Starbases will need a durability buff)
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them