Author Topic: General forum game discussion  (Read 27717 times)

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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
The nebula backdrop on the Aldebaran tactical map is purely cosmetic, I presume?

And can you shoot through the "donout hole" on the Aldebaran tactical map?

EDIT: also the 1st DD's Port and Starboard orientations are in reverse, for them the left side of the map should be Starboard and the right side Port as they observe the map turned by 180°.
EDIT: same with 1st through 3rd SF's orientations in the Fomalhaut.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 04:16:36 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Yeah, it's just there to indicate it takes place in a nebula (so the penalty to weapon accuracy applies), every grid is nebula.
Yes, you can fire through the donut hole.
Also yes, you are right, I've been dumb with the compass directions. But since there have already been orders that have been given I'm not going to change it now, since that would only add confusion. So just accept the wrong as right for now  :p
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[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
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[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
Yes, you can fire through the donut hole.

Damn, I really wanted to go all Space Hulk on the 1st DD ;)
In the Space Hulk Boardgame one of best tactics for the Genestealers is to lurk just around a corner so you negate the Space Marines' ranged combat advantage
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Veers

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Re: General forum game discussion
Hey Spoon

There's your war.

:)
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Re: General forum game discussion
So all the peaceful rhetoric was just a big lie to cover the time until the first fraction was ready for an invasion (the given diplomatic reasons are flimsy at best). Not really unexpected though since that web of treaties (and whatever secret additions there are/were) was never going to hold when exposed to a juicy nebula refinery. Also we have to do war anyway to test the game ;)

I just hope we get some more reasonable and stable politics/diplomacy in the main game...
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Offline Lepanto

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Re: General forum game discussion
What do you think was unreasonable/unstable about the politics going on?
"We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug."
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
What do you think was unreasonable/unstable about the politics going on?

I think he meant that there should be more clean-cut alliances instead of you being Minister of Peace (not an Orwell reference)
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
Well the faction leaders are going to play their part. It seems more like they'll set the goals and the minister will be free to pursue said goals however they wish. And if they don't try to fulfil those goals there will be penalties.

 

Offline headdie

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Re: General forum game discussion
The issue with the politics in the test game I think is basically 4 factions with only 1 square to expand into which if spoon says wasn't deliberate I will call BS.  The proximity and 10 turn time frame means there was no time for a treaty to become the norm and what we instead see is a very fluid political situation where words certainly have meaning at the time they are said by the end of the next phase could be rendered irrelevant, because with no time to deduce the hidden politicking of the other factions, for example the CRF/UGC Aldebaran share agreement, we in the Sol Union thought we had side stepped that possibility but either by advanced planning or hurried agreement it happened which with the UGC's heavy deployment into Aldebaran forced the Sol Union to either accept being 500/500 per turn down (We had a share agreement with the DD) or take a proactive step (a 3 way split on 1000/1000 would not really be a noticeable income for a faction)
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Re: General forum game discussion
It's pretty much what headdie said: The small symmetric map generally made diplomacy a fast paced guesswork which in my opinion it shouldn't be. It never allowed for the all peace setup that the CRF promoted to come true. And don't tell me the CRF was surprised by the invasion that their allies started.

I also think Spoon made it like this deliberately so we got to fight within a few turns. I just hope that the main game diplomacy will be different and not just fast talk and ruses/lies that you can't seperate from things someone ment honestly half a turn ago. Diplomacy is a big part about trust but you need time and (smaller) actions to build it - time we don't have and any fleet commitment is close to an all-in.

Edit:
I really like to read all the roleplay and diplomacy stuff that has been posted and it's sad there is so few substance behind all of the (more or less  :drevil:) carefully crafted words...
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 01:14:41 pm by Admiral MS »
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Offline Droid803

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Re: General forum game discussion
I don't think anyone was surprised by the invasion, but yeah, all the diplomacy has pretty much been a lot of hot air in terms on the non-aggression agreements and really boiled down to who was going to break one first.

Still think there's some value to it though. Possibly. Or I will be trying my darn best to put some value into it.
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Offline headdie

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Re: General forum game discussion
There was a lot of intent for peace but the way the game unfolded that intent was optimistic?
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
Edit:
I really like to read all the roleplay and diplomacy stuff that has been posted and it's sad there is so few substance behind all of the (more or less  :drevil:) carefully crafted words...

The problem with the RP in its current state is that few of us are doing it and all beside each other, esspecially consideirng Minister gameplay somewhat bottlenecks information ... I mean the initial exchange between AdmiralRalwood and myself in the Aldebaran stand-off is was nice and tense  but I only know that he and the CRF players got to see it (and after the initial exchange it hardly required continuing because I got all the info I wanted out of it :) )

But then again, we might see more of it as the SF-UGC war drags on ;)



"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Hey Spoon

There's your war.

:)
I'd like to officially thank the SF for their willingness to bite the bullet and potentially risk their position in the game by being the first ones to go to war  :D

The issue with the politics in the test game I think is basically 4 factions with only 1 square to expand into which if spoon says wasn't deliberate I will call BS.
It wasn't delib-
Hah, no, of course it was  :p

I just hope that the main game diplomacy will be different and not just fast talk and ruses/lies that you can't seperate from things someone ment honestly half a turn ago. Diplomacy is a big part about trust but you need time and (smaller) actions to build it - time we don't have and any fleet commitment is close to an all-in.
Yeah, I think it will be. The faction leaders being present in the main game (which I can say with a lot of confidence now, will definitely happen) alone should change how diplomacy will go.

Being able to see all 4 sides of this game is just so much fun for me, I'm just watching all this speculation, trickery and politics unfold with a big grin on my ugly mug.

Actually, now that I'm on the subject, I should mention one concern of mine. While the diplomacy messages are great, I sort of lost track of which faction has Aldebaran fight exceptions with who etc. And going through the thread means 'plowing' through a lot of 'thick' messages, which is not ideal when I'm trying to keep track of a bunch of things during a new turn.
I guess, now that I'm typing this, I should keep track of all the little diplomatic exceptions in a spreadsheet for the main game.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 06:13:48 pm by Spoon »
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: General forum game discussion
If it's any help, at this point in time, the DD have a non-combat agreement with everyone and everywhere with the exception of the CRF (truce expired and we're at cold war again).
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

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Offline Veers

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Re: General forum game discussion
It's pretty much what headdie said: The small symmetric map generally made diplomacy a fast paced guesswork which in my opinion it shouldn't be. It never allowed for the all peace setup that the CRF promoted to come true. And don't tell me the CRF was surprised by the invasion that their allies started.

You won't believe me, but I was. Didn't think SF would have moved so quickly into combat, but did expect some sort of event to occur anyway, Aldebaran was a certain though, just the question was with what faction/fleet makeup

Quote
I also think Spoon made it like this deliberately so we got to fight within a few turns. I just hope that the main game diplomacy will be different and not just fast talk and ruses/lies that you can't seperate from things someone ment honestly half a turn ago. Diplomacy is a big part about trust but you need time and (smaller) actions to build it - time we don't have and any fleet commitment is close to an all-in.

Yea, this smaller game doesn't really allow diplomacy to work, which is a shame but the shortened span is so the game can be tested, and part of the test requires combat. Overall, I see the diplomacy system working much nicer in the long run of a main game.

Quote
Edit:
I really like to read all the roleplay and diplomacy stuff that has been posted and it's sad there is so few substance behind all of the (more or less  :drevil:) carefully crafted words...

My posts suck, hence why I haven't even tried to post them. :( Fiddlesticks


As long as we are all enjoying ourselves and providing feedback. Personally enjoying the inter-faction work again, and that the 1st CRF is in the running for "Most Fuel Efficient Fleet".  :lol: Thanks Spoon!
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 08:38:45 pm by Veers »
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Offline procdrone

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Re: General forum game discussion
Quote
If it's any help, at this point in time, the DD have a non-combat agreement with everyone and everywhere with the exception of the CRF (truce expired and we're at cold war again).

With the map we have here,  you cannot avoid war, and im not sure im getting it right - but you seem to make a war in this game like it was a problem. But its not, it is just a game, and a test one to it.

And come on, CRF with their diplomatic game - someone finally HAD to make a move, and play out of this thick web of politics.

Quote
My posts suck, hence why I haven't even tried to post them. :( Fiddlesticks

Roleplaying in English somewhat doesn't work with me as well, and what is the point, to ruin yours exceptional skill with my poor writing.
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
If you guys have other ideas that could add something to the intrigue phase to replace gather intel, speak up, I'll consider it.

How about an anonymous bullet-in board-thingy visible to everyone.... For which players send Spoon messages which he posts without revealing the identity of the sender ...

 It may not replace intelligence gathering but it can be a tool spread misinformation, leak interna in a cryptic fashion and similiar...

Sample message:
"The SF may considering that they have a friend who does not fear the Black Griffons." - anonymous

As the senders remain anonymous their messages are of unreliable content (and since they go through Spoon they might be filtered, altered or br written by him) but the fact that they are going to be public allows every faction to arrive at a different conclusion if to act on them or not. Plus they might give the Ministers something to talk about among each other :D
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 04:26:21 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Sounds like a fun idea to me
I dont know if anyone would really use it though? Thoughts?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
I may be missing the point. If it's misinformation why would anyone pay attention to it? I suppose you could put something truthful in there amongst the garbage to try and make someone think it was false.