Author Topic: General forum game discussion  (Read 27744 times)

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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
About the tech level deal, if one faction can give another what they need to move up a level, how can that work when each faction has a different tech tree?

Think of tech progress as XP advancement in an RPG with a class level-system... each level unlocks abilities depending on the "class" but advancement towards the unlock is universal.

On a simulation level, tech progress is measuring the time and effort put into research. A faction doing the "research X%"-order is putting its own people at work to develop/copy/design/invent their tech, from schooling, via trainging to employing their research staff. A faction trading tech is simply buying up a workforce and knowhow at another faction, instead of developing it domestically.



Question!

What happens if two factions try to secure a location but both are "friendly" with each other? - Since we technically wouldn't fight, what would happen?

I think everyone is an agreement that this should be worked out before this happens:

No one has fired a shot yet and three of four factions have comitted to Aldebaran. each with an assurance not fire on the others ... and theoretically all three will move towards the Refinery next turn with a 2nd order to secure it....
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 11:50:25 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Unless the factions trying to secure it at the same time have some kind of sharing agreement (in which case the location will be be split control with split resource distribution), the faction that secures it last gets it. When both factions try to secure it at the same time, both will fail and it'll remain in control of the last owner (or neutral).
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Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Gather Intel will no longer be available starting next intrigue turn.
For two reasons: 1. Even my vague global reports seem quite powerful hints in the hands of all these capable ministers.
2. I don't want you players to feel like you need to hide your (interesting to read) discussions from prying Spoon eyes, because they might contain info that could help another faction.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Lepanto

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Re: General forum game discussion
Awww :(

Well, that's your call. Maybe you could rebalance Gather Intel for the main game somehow? Having an intel option adds a new dimension to the political game, but I understand if you think Gather Intel as written is OP.
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Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
Personally I'm happy to see it go. For this exact reason:
I don't want you players to feel like you need to hide your (interesting to read) discussions from prying Spoon eyes, because they might contain info that could help another faction.

 

Offline procdrone

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Re: General forum game discussion
Personally I'm happy to see it go. For this exact reason:
I don't want you players to feel like you need to hide your (interesting to read) discussions from prying Spoon eyes, because they might contain info that could help another faction.

That so much true.
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
Gather Intel will no longer be available starting next intrigue turn.
For two reasons: 1. Even my vague global reports seem quite powerful hints in the hands of all these capable ministers.
2. I don't want you players to feel like you need to hide your (interesting to read) discussions from prying Spoon eyes, because they might contain info that could help another faction.

Maybe rather than stricking the project wholesale, introducing a counter-espionage system might be an idea for Tech 2 and beyond... just thinking

EDIT: continuing to throw stuff out there:

rather than the current format one could revise Gather Intel wtih a focus on just a single faction - while counter-espionage should global but relatively cheap compared to eyeing everyone....

Alternatively it would be simple to just tier Gather Intel and having the a corresponding or higher tier of counter-espionage cancel it out.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 02:40:22 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Lepanto

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Re: General forum game discussion
Maybe have the espionage info not be entirely trustworthy? It'd be more realistic (and a prime opportunity for Spoon to troll players. :p)

If you, say, pay 2000 for Gather Intel, you get ambiguous and possibly misleading info. If you pay 4000, you get mostly-trustworthy info. If you pay even more, you get definite info.

On the other hand, players can spend money on Counter-Intel, which either shuts down enemy espionage networks or lets you deliberately feed the spies fake information. :drevil:

Make the total amount of funds spent on espionage public, but keep each faction's specific expenditures on different kinds of Intel and Counter-Intel secret. That faction over there, whom your spies have told you is trustworthy, and whom you're considering an alliance with? Did they just spend 4000 money on spying on Faction C, or did they spend it feeding YOUR spies false intel as part of an elaborate backstab? Who knows... ;)
"We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug."
Finian O'Toole, The Irish Times, 5 May 1994

Blue Planet: The Battle Captains: Missions starring the Admirals of BP: WiH
Frontlines 2334+2335: T-V War campaign
GVB Ammit: Vasudan strike bomber
Player-Controlled Capship Modding Tutorial

 

Offline headdie

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Re: General forum game discussion
perhaps

Have a general Intel gathering like we see now where you can get info on all factions but also have a general counter intel which puts an element of chance, say 50% on gaining intel from that faction

but then have choice of instead of general intel you can launch a targeted intel at one faction, this would overpower a general counter intel, but if a faction wants to they can hide a specific action set say the movement of a fleet or several if they have the same destination or part of the same operation with a high chance of beating both intelligence types.

I think perhaps have both intelligence costing 1000 money and counterintelligence costing 500

Also on the turn summary thread is they just show as intelligence and counterintelligence so that it is unknown to the other factions exactly what levels they are running at
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Offline Droid803

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Re: General forum game discussion
Grading the intel doesn't help the fact that people will still just take things to PMs to avoid their supar sekret plahnz gittin leek'd.
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
Grading the intel doesn't help the fact that people will still just take things to PMs to avoid their supar sekret plahnz gittin leek'd.

An active counter intel-action might be the solution to that. Mostly the problem is that there is no active stance against Gather Intel in the game... if you can "firewall" your discussion ACTIVELY it can mitigate the "must not Spoon see this"-problem
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 01:57:03 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: General forum game discussion
But - why would you spend cash on active defence instead of taking your planning to PMs to get the same effect, for zero cash? You'd need some other incentive to counter that, and sorry, I don't have any ideas at this point.
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Offline procdrone

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Re: General forum game discussion
But - why would you spend cash on active defence instead of taking your planning to PMs to get the same effect, for zero cash? You'd need some other incentive to counter that, and sorry, I don't have any ideas at this point.

There is too much to leave to simple "Trust", and yeah, there would be people who would hide away anyway. No point for some to beeing fair and keep posting on forum boards where Spoon can see, while others take it to PM's. Not fair there, so either kill it, or regulate it.
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Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
It just makes too much sense to just cut Spoon out rather than spend valuable resources to do it (and even then it might not be totally reliable, while taking it to PMs is 100% reliable.)

The test game has had its first real success in removing Gather Intel imo.

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
I don't want to do it in the Public Diploacy thread, so I'll say it here, Enioch and Lepanto, you're cracking me up with your posts. I'm imagining that song being played to the DD's super soldiers. It involves tables and chairs flying through the air and a massive metal fist going through a viewscreen. :lol:

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Edit: Game update tomorrow is gonna be a bit later than usual as I'll need a bit of extra time to set up the tactical part (and to try and figure out all the complicated diplomatic webs you guys have weaved.  :p)

I agree that intelligence and counter intelligence could be an interesting concept, but as has already been pointed out by others here, it could be completely negated by just taking stuff to pm or some other channel. If you guys have other ideas that could add something to the intrigue phase to replace gather intel, speak up, I'll consider it.

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Addendum: Music can soothe the savage beast, but we would very much appreciate it if you could stop clogging our subspace bandwith with enthusiastic renditions of your national anthem, 'Rule Brittania' and 'Hearts of Oak'. Not to mention it's not helping your case, since our Yonsakuren troops are used to go into battle trances when they hear it.
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If your troops go into battle trance at the sound of our national anthem, that must be a dreadful inconvenience for them; after all, since our two nations are not at war, they are seeing no combat against Britannian troops. For the time being, we have replaced our traditional diplomatic broadcasts of our National Anthem with a classic early-21st-century song famed for promoting international harmony. Hopefully, this tune will be less offensive to your troops, and convey Britannia's sincere spirit of international cooperation. Please inform us which song is more to your convenience.

P.S. Her Majesty formally and sincerely apologizes for her Flipper comments yesterday. After the Cabinet had an extended discussion with her on the benefits of social media tact, she agreed that perhaps "ABOUT TIME WE GET IN A GOOD SCRAP LEPANTO YOU LOUSY HIPPIE" was a suboptimal choice of words to express her nuanced feelings on Britannian astropolitical relations.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 10:03:44 pm by Spoon »
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: General forum game discussion
Edit: Game update tomorrow is gonna be a bit later than usual as I'll need a bit of extra time to set up the tactical part (and to try and figure out all the complicated diplomatic webs you guys have weaved.  :p)

Can you please at least give an advance notice who we are all shooting at?
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Turn is up, This is your advance notice  :p

Speaking about notice, I just noticed I forgot to update the +500 resource and money income to the UGC and CRF, worry not, you will in fact receive +3500 next turn. I'll update it then.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: General forum game discussion
Spoon, your tactical battle map, 0rph3u5 didn't take Carriers.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: General forum game discussion
Ah darn, mixed up the 2nd and 3rd.
Also forgot to account of the ECM, lemme go and fix all my mistakes.

Edit: There, hopefully everything is A-okay now!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 01:12:42 pm by Spoon »
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them