Author Topic: Earth Defense Megadump  (Read 8717 times)

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Nope :P

You decided to release Ed stuff, I'm okay with that. But these assets are currently included to the project which is on the roll. Leaking them now will be problematic.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Nope :P

You decided to release Ed stuff, I'm okay with that. But these assets are currently included to the project which is on the roll. Leaking them now will be problematic.

Really? A few models suddenly accessible publicly will be truly problematic for your mod? I find that hard to believe, but whatever.

Also why are we talking future tense? The dump was downloaded 30 times. Any damage to be done has been done. I really doubt anyone who someday plays your "mystery project" and sees those models is going to think "hey! I was cheated! Those models were in the ED dump!"
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Offline General Battuta

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Really? A few models suddenly accessible publicly will be truly problematic for your mod? I find that hard to believe, but whatever.

I've said it before, but as far as I can tell no campaign in the history of HLP has ever achieved any particular success or attention on the strength of its models or assets.

Exclusive ships seems to be a really good way to get people excited to pillage your modpack, but not a good way to get people excited about your campaign.

 

Offline Hades

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Any mod that has to hold itself up by exclusive models more than likely has severe problems elsewhere in the mod that should be looked at before a couple of already-leaked meshes become an issue for it.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Droid803

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Exclusive ships seems to be a really good way to get people excited to pillage your modpack, but not a good way to get people excited about your campaign.

This is very true.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline Lorric

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That might have worked for Blue Planet with the use of the community assets and is a great example that you don't need to create exclusive assets to create a good mod, but you could hardly have WoD or WCS or TBP without their assets. Maybe WoD could have been slapped together with community assets, but it would hardly be the same, not by a long shot. It would take a big hit. Right now it's like you're saying there's basically no point to bother with creating new ships. :confused:

Frontlines makes use of a very few new ships, but they're hardly something to be relying on. They just add something to the overall package.

 

Offline Kobrar44

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Exclusive != new. Creation of new ships is very encouraged, keeping them exclusively for your mod for years until said mod is released is not. Mod creator is still entitled to do whatever.
Oh guys, use that [ url ][ img ][ /img ][ /url ] :/

 

Offline Lorric

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I'm just looking at the way this dump was done, and while it is great that this stuff will go to the community, and Dragon seems to think there's a variety of good stuff to be had in this dump, it just seems really sad to me the way it's happened. With obvious communication issues / lack of communication between the team. It's obviously sad that a project has failed, but the part that seems really sad to me is that it's just been thrown out like this, almost unceremoniously. If this is the culmination of 7 years work, it's something that seems to me that should have been presented to the community. Talked about in detail with pride and shown off. Maybe released in a number of segments. Apart from what Dragon said, I basically have no idea what's in this dump. But it sounds like there's plenty in there to be proud of and it's just been thrown out like this.

Exclusive != new. Creation of new ships is very encouraged, keeping them exclusively for your mod for years until said mod is released is not. Mod creator is still entitled to do whatever.

Yeah, I can basically agree with that. Thanks. There would be times when it would certainly be understandable to want to hold something back though. It's tough.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 01:47:34 pm by Lorric »

 

Offline Droid803

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I think the issue here is that the mod is so dead that a good portion of the original content creators have vanished at this point, and that the few remaining active members don't even have that good of an idea who is still around. Sounds like what ended up happening here.
It's not ceremonious, but because the decision of what to do was left for so long, there's not many people left to actually discuss? That seemed to be the root of the issue here. Basically,

this is a good example of the importance of having a project asset policy
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Lorric

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Yes, it would appear so. I wonder if there's anything that could be learned about where this project went wrong (and maybe where it went right!) that could potentially be of help to others in the future.

 

Offline Mongoose

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The real lesson here seems to be what karajorma et al. have proposed in the past, having mod teams use Creative Commons or a similar license for all of their produced content.  That way if the mod does wind up falling apart, permission to release any of the involved assets should have already been settled from the start.

 

Offline General Battuta

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The real real bottom line lesson here is if a project doesn't FRED it dies. ED had everything except for a lead mission designer/mission design team with the authority to make the missions stick (instead of endlessly redesigning and iterating).

There was no reason this campaign couldn't have been out a couple years ago, all the hard parts were done...except the hard part that is at the core of a campaign.

 

Offline Goober5000

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The real real bottom line lesson here is if a project doesn't FRED it dies.

:nod:

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Which really adds more weight to the idea of exclusive assets being any sort of make or break for a mod. You can have all the exclusives you want, but if you don't have missions or if your missions are piss, then who cares about your mod? People will just download it to raid it for assets and call it a day. Spend more time on missions and less time on hoarding things. Hell, release those fancy models to generate some early interest in your mod like Scroll has started doing!
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Offline Dragon

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That might have worked for Blue Planet with the use of the community assets and is a great example that you don't need to create exclusive assets to create a good mod, but you could hardly have WoD or WCS or TBP without their assets. Maybe WoD could have been slapped together with community assets, but it would hardly be the same, not by a long shot. It would take a big hit. Right now it's like you're saying there's basically no point to bother with creating new ships. :confused:
Notice that all examples you quoted were total conversions, with a very different feel than FS. If you're making a TC, exclusive assets make a bit more sense. Diaspora or WCS models aren't going to appear in an FS mod anytime soon, they'd look very jarring if they did (especially to those familiar with the BSG and WC). Some people reused TBP stuff, but that's simply because it's been around for so long (well, that and the fact it has a wealth of non-B5 specific FX, the only mod with that many unique sounds and bitmaps back in the day).

As for WoD, I'd like to present a counterexample: Dimensional Eclipse. Similar feeling to WoD, a bit less popular maybe but with almost 100% community assets. WoD had unique art style and awesome writing, which is the true reason for its popularity. You can pull the art style off without unique models as well, as with DE. You just have to be creative with textures.

 

Offline Nyctaeus

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Exclusive assets IMHO doesn't make sense, but it depends of author's will when and if he want to release it. Especialy, when this three ships I mentioned before are incomplete and require more work.

And another reason for keeping ED files unreleased is status of the whole mod. ED was never dead. It's waiting in queue, as the mod is 90% done and it's a waste of cool materials and storyline for just a random mod dump as I mentioned in November Status Update. As soon as Mystery Project is complete and released, we want... Or wanted to finish ED. My disapperance about a half of a year ago due to real life issues delayed the process... But only DELAYED not STOPPED.

Shiv left me non-official leadership, and I had plans to lead this to the end. It was the only way to publish all the stuff with original team members will... And sorry, but I don't know if it's still a freakin point in finishing ED right now.
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Offline Hades

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Exclusive assets IMHO doesn't make sense, but it depends of author's will when and if he want to release it. Especialy, when this three ships I mentioned before are incomplete and require more work.

And another reason for keeping ED files unreleased is status of the whole mod. ED was never dead. It's waiting in queue, as the mod is 90% done and it's a waste of cool materials and storyline for just a random mod dump as I mentioned in November Status Update. As soon as Mystery Project is complete and released, we want... Or wanted to finish ED. My disapperance about a half of a year ago due to real life issues delayed the process... But only DELAYED not STOPPED.

Shiv left me non-official leadership, and I had plans to lead this to the end. It was the only way to publish all the stuff with original team members will... And sorry, but I don't know if it's still a freakin point in finishing ED right now.
You are the only ED member (not counting Battuta and Qaz who to the best of my knowledge were not active members) to actually post in this thread. The mod's dead, long live the mod.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline General Battuta

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ED suffered from a pretty serious lack of creative direction. As far as I know there was no unifying vision behind the mod except 'make FS3' 'make it look great'. The Vasudan Civil War opening was a solid start, but man, attempts to move the story past that went everywhere. Or at least that's my read on the situation.

Tantalus worked really really hard on closing down missions but the poor guy was basically on his own for a while.

 

Offline Lorric

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@ Betrayal

Well if you weren't intending to work on this until "Mystery Project" is complete anyway, I wouldn't worry about whether you want to continue work on this or not right now. Take stock when you've finished your other project.

If it's 90% complete, I don't know whether it's possible for you alone to pick up the project and carry it the rest of the way? Or maybe with a little help here and there? The stuff may have been leaked, but it doesn't mean you don't have to work on it. The stuff that's already out still gets used and made into things after all.

See what the situation is like after you've completed your project. Maybe some of the others who worked on this will be back and or willing to go back to it. But whatever's best for you.

 

Offline Dragon

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Exclusive assets IMHO doesn't make sense, but it depends of author's will when and if he want to release it. Especialy, when this three ships I mentioned before are incomplete and require more work.

And another reason for keeping ED files unreleased is status of the whole mod. ED was never dead. It's waiting in queue, as the mod is 90% done and it's a waste of cool materials and storyline for just a random mod dump as I mentioned in November Status Update. As soon as Mystery Project is complete and released, we want... Or wanted to finish ED. My disapperance about a half of a year ago due to real life issues delayed the process... But only DELAYED not STOPPED.
TBH, it would have made more sense to hold up that Mystery Project I keep hearing about. Especially if it was really "90% done". ED had much more publicity, people actually knew about it and at the same time it was lacking in activity, eventually leading to this. "On indefinite hold" is pretty much the same as "dead" in my book (and in most other peoples' books as well, AFAIK). MindGames was also on hold ("Until Kara is done with Diaspora") and look where it is now. Also, no other ED team member (as far as I know) was connected to this Mystery Project, meaning they had no reason to believe it'd ever get released, either. All we know about it is that it hold up yet more good (or at least fairly decent) assets and that it's been in dev for quite a while now.

What you can do now is to take your time with that project of yours and then restart ED at your leisure, without needing to keep good music and HUD graphics out of the community. I wouldn't worry about unique ships, there's a chance nobody will use them, as they're rather niche models (an odd Shivan ship and a Terran logistics vessel, the latter might've been released already).