Author Topic: All I can do is wait for the names to be released...  (Read 9233 times)

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Offline Stryke 9

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
Yeah, we put them in exposed cages by the thousands in the middle of a country we don't recognize as legitimate. Clever, if thoroughly evil.

 

Offline Grey Wolf

All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
I was just saying, dump them somewhere where they can live and we don't have to worry about them ever getting off. Not putting htem in cages....
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Stryke 9

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
That would be nice, but nowadays there IS no such place, short of the Moon, and even if the U.S. COULD isolate them, our justice system is revenge-based. We want to remove their human dignity and treat them as animals till the end of their days first; safety issues/reform/considerations for human rights come second.

 

Offline Grey Wolf

All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
And that is probably why this country is going ot ****....
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Stryke 9

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
We have been since the 50s. And we're only going to **** in some aspects, while other things stay the same or improve. Much like anywhere. We're more powerful than ever, for one thing...

 

Offline LtNarol

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
I know this is politically incorrect, but frankly, I'm not paying for these people to live nice and comfortable in some first class jail cell.  Throw them in a 4*4 cell without creature comforts or hang them.  Either one works for me, but I'm not feeding the kind of **** these people are.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
Who cares about politically incorrect? That's inhuman. Most of our POWs had nothing to do with the WTC or anything of the sort. Those that did are getting "special treatment", you'd better believe. Most of the guys we're lockign in cages like dogs, they're just some Afghan farmboy who joined the militia so he could feel he had some control over his life, or so that he wouldn't get shot. Or, he's a member of what would amount to a political party in Afghanistan. They're every bit as human as the rest of us, they just happen to be on the losing, and thus "wrong" or "evil", side.

We probably will end up executing them, anyway, since we really can't send them back home, and can't just leave them there.

 

Offline Bobboau

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
at the least they were fighting for the talaban, if this is all they were doing they've got what they deserve, minumum
how long do they remain there, untill we can determine what all they were doing and if they should be kept somewere else or let go, it'll probly be a few years (3-6)
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Offline CP5670

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
Quote
Partly this is because I don't yet really know why myself. Finding one's way to life-beliefs can take time and effort.


I think you are in the situation I was in a few years ago - an indecisive one, which is not bad at all actually; anyway, good luck on this pursuit. ;)

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Part of what troubles me about your 'logical' perspective is its seeming incompatibility with human behaviour. Since emotions, as you say cannot be rationalized, mathematicized and predicted with certainty, they do not seem logical. Indeed, from a perspective of mathematical logic they would not seem to exist absolutely. However, they quite patently do exist IMO (although I'm sure that I'm making some kind of logical error there). Basically what I'm saying is that your applications of a logical viewpoint to human problems seem questionable given the inherently illogical nature of humanity.


Actually, I do not think the human is inherently illogical at all in the way you are talking of here; the human perfectly conforms to the rules of logic, but uses more sets of starting assumptions. In a truly universal sense, nothing that lies in the absolute can be at all illogical if the consistency assumption is to hold, but we as humans require some additional assumptions for actually discovering and understanding our reality in addition to merely existing within it and being a part of it. So in other words, all of our actions are logical from a universal perspective (e.g. even if everyone in the world "decides" to kill themselves, it will just be part of the workings of reality), but since our assumptions should be chosen so to minimize their quantity while maximizing the indeterminacies resolved, we can thus narrow down our systems of logical consistency much further than the actual workings of the universe. This was a subject I was stuck on for a long time actually: a system of purpose (where everything in the universe has a definite meaning and purpose) led to all sorts of contradictions, but one that eschewed all meaning left too many things uncertain to be of much use as an assumption, so I have currently settled on a system where purpose/meaning is a perceptual attribute of any object, idea, etc. but can be made into an absolute quantity by putting into material practice, and this forms a sort of synthetic interaction between the two. (kind of a combination of the ideas of Wittgenstein, Hegel and Russell) The same applies for any non-absolute idea. This tends to stem into details regarding the connections between the various perceptive realms and the absolute one, but I won't go too much into that topic right now.

Also, I actually do think that there will be some point in the future where science will have advanced far enough to predict human emotions with mathematical accuracy. There is the possibility that emotions stem from true random events of sorts and thus would be impossible to fully predict, but there has really been nothing to suggest the truth of this any more than the probabilistic nature of, say, elementary particles.

Looks like I rambled on quite a bit there; some of this stuff is rather hard to explain but I should have it made more precise in the coming years.

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Perhaps this is due to conflicting base views. From what I have read from you, your belief in the Universe and humans seems to be of determinism, biological psychology and so on - something which I disagree with on a base level (though I find it difficult to articulate due to the nature of the subject, and the fact that it's nearly midnight and I got up at 7AM this morning).


Yes, that is about right for my assumptions, since it would be against the principles of induction to assume that the human would be a probabilistic unit in a truly deterministic universe as long as we have no additional information; either both are determinstic or both are probabilistic. (same reason that scientists assume that the laws of physics will hold in the next galaxy just as well as they do here) The alternative is of course the probabilistic system (quantum theory-style), but that would still amount to an effective deterministic system for our purposes as far as this topic goes. Also, it is 10PM here and I just woke up, so I will be awake until 6 or so. :D

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Oh, don't get me wrong; I don't oppose all change - or do you mean that I oppose changes that happen not for a reason, but because they can? Anyway, I'm considered fairly radical though not in the directions that you are... ;)


Well, almost all of the world's population resists change simply because it is change, so as long as you don't fall into that trap, all is good. :D

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Of course I want change - but I want it on my terms, like all other humans.


That sounds fine, but what exactly defined "your terms?" Those are subject to change from outside influences. ;)

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Oh, and the Unabomber article is an interesting read. "The Dangers of Leftism" indeed; I would like to see a comparative "Dangers of Rightism" analysis. :)


hehe, you could probably find something like that elsewhere on the internet...

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Who cares about politically incorrect? That's inhuman. Most of our POWs had nothing to do with the WTC or anything of the sort. Those that did are getting "special treatment", you'd better believe. Most of the guys we're lockign in cages like dogs, they're just some Afghan farmboy who joined the militia so he could feel he had some control over his life, or so that he wouldn't get shot. Or, he's a member of what would amount to a political party in Afghanistan. They're every bit as human as the rest of us, they just happen to be on the losing, and thus "wrong" or "evil", side.

We probably will end up executing them, anyway, since we really can't send them back home, and can't just leave them there.


You speak as if there is something wrong with that. Of course the US is the biggest, most evil monster in the world, but so what? This brutality should work well as long as it is publicized and thus these people made an example of to future hostiles. Although there is nothing that really defines "human" as an adjective, keep labeling them as "inhuman" anyway, because that will serve as a good propaganda technique to get the masses to follow. :D Although I do agree with your "who cares about politically incorrect" statement.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2002, 10:23:57 pm by 296 »

 

Offline Grey Wolf

All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
The other thing that I really hate is the School of the Americas, the official US Government training center for terrorists :doubt:
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Stryke 9

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
Bobbau: And the soldiers drafted during the Vietnam war all belonged in their POW camps? Modern war is not even a question of ideologies- with the information they had, the (very) few who had a choice in the matter of what side they were on would have chosen the Taliban as the least of many evils.

 

Offline Bobboau

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
the soldiers captured in Vietnam did beling in POW camps, they didn't deserve some of the treatment they got,
but that is irrelivent becase we arn't doing anything I would be terably upset at another contry doing to an American soldier if that soldier was captured by that contry while we were engaged in hostilitys with them.

further, this isn't a traditional war and as such these arn't technicaly POWs as described by the geneva convention, wich means were not leting them go untill we know if they are going to be a threat to us
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Offline Stryke 9

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
That was a war in the only sense a war is ever a war, but in case you haven't noticed the U.S. is taking a few liberties with our international treaties these days.

If you don't think locking them in filthy, cramped, exposed cages is something nasty to do to a person, perhaps you yourself wouldn't object to it, eh? Believe me, if the Afghans were doing that to captured American soldiers, the propoganda machine would be cranking out outrages by the hour. But since it's us, we haven't even heard anything about the Guantanamo camps since the first POWs arrived. They've dissapeared, which, to my knowledge, generally is a foreboding thing to happen. After all, the Jews dissapeared, too, in the Holocaust, as did dissenters under Stalin and a dozen others who American history books vilify.

 

Offline Sandwich

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
...but I should have it made more precise in the coming years.



...Years?!?!? :shaking:
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Kellan

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich



...Years?!?!? :shaking:


Yes, it is all part of The Plan.

 

Offline Zeronet

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
But Cuba is hot, exposed cages are probably better for them.
Got Ether?

 

Offline Sandwich

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
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Originally posted by Kellan


Yes, it is all part of The Plan.


*cries*

Oh, wait - there's a smiley for that: :(
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Bobboau

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
there being fed and are being given medical atention, they are being kept healthy, that is all that is required
if Sadam captures some of our guys while were beating him down and he puts them in cages,
as long as they are being fed, given water, medical atantion, arn't forced to do things that go againsed there religon (ie, Sadam doesn't force them at gun point to pray to Alah every day), I wouldn't be more upset than just by the fact that they got captured and are imprisoned
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Offline CP5670

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
Actually, it is a part of t|-|€ rlah®©™, which is even greater than The Plan™. :D I have a little under ten years to get all this stuff ready to keep things according to schedule. ;7

 

Offline Sandwich

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All I can do is wait for the names to be released...
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Actually, it is a part of t|-|€ rlah®©™, which is even greater than The Plan™. :D I have a little under ten years to get all this stuff ready to keep things according to schedule. ;7


You can cut your time in half if you'd just STOP USING THAT WEIRD-CHARACTER L33T-SPEAK!!!!! :p :D
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill