[Kellan]

Originally posted by CP5670
That is fine (for now); what is not fine is saying that humans are the "superior species" or something.

Saying God created them is the easy way out.

And basically, the Church's position on aliens is that they're either inhabitants of Heaven, missionaries from Hell or a lesser species. As I said above. If you want to read about this I'd recommend A Case of Conscience by James Blish. Good book.

[Dark_4ce]

You know, if they find life on Mars, there still be skeptics... Even if there is HARD PROOF! They'll go "Well, it was luck..." or "Well, look were basically made up of the same stuff so they're not alien species." So the next BIG thing to search for is life based on silicon or something. And probably even then, they wont be happy...

[Kellan]

No, what we need to find are aliens who don't have any concept of religion.

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Bobboau
then next day there will be a space race develop between the christians, jews, and muslums, christians will win and darken the skys with a fleet of "arcs" filled with merc... I mean misonaries.


I'm still waiting for direct from mars evedence, it won't be much longer, if some random point on the planet was so heavily populated by bacteria that when hit by a meteor there were enough to survive (or the fosils of them) all the way to earth,
then the planet should be over run with this stuf
if there was once life there I would think it is still there, as once life starts it is very hard to get rid of it

mars is on the extreme cold limit of the habitable zone, possibly even beyond it - we know that it ones had a magnetic field [from rock magnetism being polarly aligned like it is on earth]

we also know there is water on mars, it's simply frozen

We Also know here on earth if our core were to go cold we'd end up a cold, lifeless rock, and our  magnetic field would cease to exist


put it togeather

[CP5670]

No, what we need to find are aliens who don't have any concept of religion.

That should be pretty easy if their society evolved differently, but they might have other strange concepts.

[Fineus]

I don't see it easy at all to be honest - I mean any society with a concept of the question "how did we get here?" must have come across the idea that they were put there for a purpose and for that there was something that did the putting. Therefore part of that society might dedicate itself to worshipping that idea and from that we get religion (in a rather basic - and my own - understanding).

All I'm saying is any race developed to human levels of thought may and probably has asked itself that question at least once.

[Stealth]

so what do you think thunder?

do you think we've been put here for a purpose?  do you believe in religion?

[Fineus]

Shrikes going to love this (look at his sig to see why EDIT: Ah, I see he's changed his sig since a couple of weeks ago... ho hum)

Whilst I realise that in most cases (including mine) religion is necessary as something to look to, something to fill the gap if you will - I don't feel it should constrict a person as much as many do, so I'm angling more and more to that of Wicca. Whilst I've only looked into it for about 6 months to a year now it seems to make more and more sense in the way of providing what someone should ask  for out of a religion - moral values and something to believe in, it doesn't inhibit a person or impose unreasonable rules on them - it also (and more importantly in some cases) doesn't ask the person to hate followers of other religions, something I think more and more people are loosing the plot with these days.

Suffice to say it's still early days, but that's what I'm coming to think. As for wether we were put here for a reason? I don't know - but I'm only 18, I think coming to a conclusion about that kinda thing at this point is a bit premature.

[CP5670]

I don't see it easy at all to be honest - I mean any society with a concept of the question "how did we get here?" must have come across the idea that they were put there for a purpose and for that there was something that did the putting. Therefore part of that society might dedicate itself to worshipping that idea and from that we get religion (in a rather basic - and my own - understanding).

Maybe that is only our mode of thought though; perhaps other species will instead say that their future descendants created a time machine and put in a new past, and this went on in an infinite sequence. (I can see some flaws in this line of reasoning, but they might not )

Suffice to say it's still early days, but that's what I'm coming to think. As for wether we were put here for a reason? I don't know - but I'm only 18, I think coming to a conclusion about that kinda thing at this point is a bit premature.

Hey I have reached a suitable conclusion and I am 15; the next ten years will be spent fleshing out the details into a more coherent system. (you may hear of me later on )

[beatspete]

....yes, bacteria could have traveled to/from earth to start life.  I saw a program today about it, and they ran tests on samples of bacteria, firing them from a rifle. They found the bacteria could easilly survive 100000 G's of acceleration, and 300000G of deceleration.  They theorised that in the instant after the impact, the bacteria would reform themselves back to normal.  To confirm it, they did a test in 0 gravity, and saw that the bacteria didn't re-arange properly.  They worked out that the bacteria use a gravitational field (ie of a planet) to realign themselves.
What this means for life on other planets, i dont know :doh:



Perhaps an alien race has no religion.  Perhaps it is one hive mind and has no intrest in religion or how it got there, only its future expansion.  A race of mind readers (theres a bigger word ending in ...path but i cant think of it) could evolve into one single mind.  Similar to the Borg, except not mechanical.
I think its just our curiosity as humans that drives us to wonder where we came from.  And religion is the product of fear of where we might have come from.  I mean, what if we found out we are just bacteria living in the feicies of galaxy sized creatures?  Would you accept it?  No, you'd create a religion to tell you you are here to make peace and happiness.


Personally i neve think much about where life on earth came from, i tend to think more about where i came from.  Technically i am just a conseince being fed sensory input.  And how do i know that what i am told happened before i was born, did actually happen?  How do i know anything before exactly now happened?  All i have to go on is memories, and what can they really proove?
I've gone crazy (again). Good night people.

[Bobboau]

I'm not disagreeing with this, at the moment, I think it is more likely than not that there was (and if there was than there probly still is) life on mars, but I don't think it is conclusive,
I want something I can hold up and no one can deny it

[Kellan]

Originally posted by CP5670
Maybe that is only our mode of thought though; perhaps other species will instead say that their future descendants created a time machine and put in a new past, and this went on in an infinite sequence. (I can see some flaws in this line of reasoning, but they might not )

I agree that it's quite possible an extraterrestrial race could have very different values to our own societies. Whilst we can look at human societies and see common threads of language, religion and so on, humans share a common biology and environment. This is without mentioning that the various societies interact, leading to the spreading of ideas.

However, we can't know that an entirely separate society will share any values with ours. They might eat their young or kill their parents. We only find it impossible to believe that an entire race could not believe in God(s) because it's so deeply ingrained into most humans' psyches.

[Megadude]

To be brutally honest, i don't believe in God.  If this offends anyone, go to your mommy and cry.  I don't believe in the bible or the devil or anything a religion might include.  I think the bible is just a bunch of stories used to teach morals (which i do have).  I think that saying God created us is ludicrous.  I cringe when people give credit to god for the things they've accomplished withe their boold and sweat.  I don't believe in fate or destiny.  I believe in goals and integrity and morals.  I believe in are human characteristics.  I am cynical person and I have every right to be one.



As for ET life, I think it is inevitable.  Scientists have discovered bacteria living off of sulfur gas and metal.  There are lifeforms in ocean trenches and encased in ice in Antartica.  I have no doubt that mars has life.  I have no doubt that Europa has life.  To believe that we are special is farcical.  To believe we were put here for a purpose is simply someone trying to justify their existence (which i don't have to do; i just live and be happy).  To believe there are no other intelligent lifeforms is showing your ignorance.  To ignore everything i said is showing that u don't have an open mind.  If people don't have an open mind, humanity is doomed.

I said my piece,
L'Etoile Noir

[Megadude]

perhaps i should've posted in OT: Explain the universe

or not

[Kellan]

Originally posted by Megadude
I am cynical person and I have every right to be one.

"A cynic is a person who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing."

No wait, I'm a cynic too. I believe in all that stuff as well. Oh. Damn.

[Fineus]

But you can be a cynic and an optimist, being a cynic doesn't always mean you're a universal cynic. I'm cynical about anything large corporations say at the moment but there's nothing to stop me being an optimist about other things...

[Kellan]

Originally posted by Thunder
But you can be a cynic and an optimist, being a cynic doesn't always mean you're a universal cynic. I'm cynical about anything large corporations say at the moment but there's nothing to stop me being an optimist about other things...

Hey, don't blame me for what other, more cynical people said.

[CODEDOG ND]

hmmmm interesting but I'm still skeptical.  Hence the word "BELIEVED."

[Ace]

Originally posted by Thunder
I don't see it easy at all to be honest - I mean any society with a concept of the question "how did we get here?" must have come across the idea that they were put there for a purpose and for that there was something that did the putting. Therefore part of that society might dedicate itself to worshipping that idea and from that we get religion (in a rather basic - and my own - understanding).

All I'm saying is any race developed to human levels of thought may and probably has asked itself that question at least once.

You could take the stance that this theoretical species instead relied on hard observation to attempt to solve this question. Over time many schools of thought based on these observations and skewed ideas form within the conclusions of each. Which then of course forms into what could be interpreted as ritualistic religion from corrupted scientific method.