[Megadude]

This is for those of u who read Starship Trooper by Robert Heinlein.  If you've only watched the movie, go read the book.  It's basically Heinlein modeling what he thinks is the ideal society: a semi-fascist government battling his hated (?) communist society.  A refresher: his ideal society was a society who have only citizens having responsibilities such as voting and holding offices.  However to become citizens u have to serve in the military.  What do u think of such a society and of other aspects in the book?

[Stryke 9]

Mostly that Heinlein really wasn't all that great a writer. I mean, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" was all right, as were some of his short stories, but man...

[Dark_4ce]

I read the book when I heard they were making a movie out of it. Yeah, the story is ok, much like reading a story from WW2 when it comes down to what it feels like to be a soldier and how you desensitize to the death and chaos around you. However, his whole concept of government is weak an flawed. No way in hell would society turn into what he "dreamed" of. however, it is understandable for him to think of such, cause he did go through World War II and had the new fear of the USSR. But a society where there is a ranking system of CIVILIAN being lower than CITIZEN because you served in the military is rediculous. As well as publc punishment.

Now the movie kicked ass, cause Paul Verhoeven turned it into a parody. He mocked Heinleins "dream society" to the fullest and basically made Starship Troopers not only an action feast with intense amounts of gore. But a film parodying the media, losing innocents, fascist goverments, the works. Really good movie, ok book.

[Kellan]

I second Stryke 9 on the books, and Dark Ace on the film.

Now I don't even have to have my own opinions!

[NeoHunter]

I watched the Starship Trooper movie but never read any of the novels.

I heard there were these race called the Skinnies in the novels and that they were helping the bugs or something.

Wonder if they will be doing a sequel to the Starship Troopers movie...

[Dark_4ce]

Oh yeah, the Skinnies. They you're basic gray alien if I remember correctly. They just had long feet and arms. And the humans were allready at war with the Skinnies before the Bugs attacked. So the bugs basically joined forces with em.

[NeoHunter]

What I don't understand is that why the bugs seem so intelligent but have no real cities or technology or something that says "We are smart!"? The lack of technology sort of gives people the impression that the bugs are brainless.

And also, what is the bugs' motive for attacking the humans? I don't think the book or the movie made it very clear. No motivation other than to just keep killing. Its a bit lame though.

[Stryke 9]

The movie didn't really go that deep, y'know?  It warn't no Apocalypse Now.

[Kellan]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
The movie didn't really go that deep, y'know?  It warn't no Apocalypse Now.

In these times, grasping at straws is better than admitting defeat. Where is our nineties Apocalypse Now? (ignoring that fact that it got a cinematic re-release a few months ago in some places).

[NeoHunter]

I know but if you write a story and the enemy or bad guys in the story have no motives for doing bad stuff, it sort of leaves you hanging there. Doing bad things to conquer the entire galaxy seems rather on the surface. There must be a deeper reason for the story to be more interesting.

[Dark_4ce]

Originally posted by NeoHunter
What I don't understand is that why the bugs seem so intelligent but have no real cities or technology or something that says "We are smart!"? The lack of technology sort of gives people the impression that the bugs are brainless.

And also, what is the bugs' motive for attacking the humans? I don't think the book or the movie made it very clear. No motivation other than to just keep killing. Its a bit lame though.

Actually its not lame at all. The movie, less so in the book, actually never gave any hard evidence that the Bugs attacked. Thats what makes the movie that much more satirical, cause a ROCK crashes into the Earth. And everyone suddenly points they're finger at the Bugs. Some "theorize" that they were only attacking cause of human colonization in they're system. This was given by one reporter who of course gets chopped in half by one of the bugs, at the beggining of them film. So truth be told, it could just as well be that the bugs never did attack. And the humans just decided to blame someone else for the disaster.

In the book, before the war, the goverment wasn't really happy with the influx of citizenry, cause it became the cool thing to do, during a time of peace. People joined in, stayed for two years and game out as citizens so they could basically show off. The goverment wanted citizens who actually have gone through some action, know what they're voting for. Thus, negotiations between the skinnies became worse, then there was war.

In the film, its just a bit more simple. A rock hits. Who did it? THE BUGS! ATTAAAACK!

Sure, they're intelligent. but who said that means they got to have un-organic technology? They live in the ground, burrow. Have a hierachial society. But if you're wondering about weaponry, as in the movie and book, they got anti air, infantry, heavy support and air support.

So if you look at it, the bugs are innocent.  The humans are bad. Cause they got the motives. To keep strong, to spread across the universe, to be the DOMINANT SPECIES, not the bugs.

Kinda makes you feel sorry for the bugs huh?

[Stryke 9]

Er, they never had it be very equivocal that the Bugs threw the rock in the movie. They have all sorts of plasma signatures and things that say it WAS the bugs, in fact.

[Kellan]

Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Kinda makes you feel sorry for the bugs huh?

Nah, they're only bugs. Surely the human leadership would know that nobody cares for bugs. Especially giant razor-sharp ones, or ones that suck out your brains.

[Dark_4ce]

Riiight. And you believe the government?!

Actually, I was watching the DVD with the Directors commentry, and he also states the fact, that we are never that sure if the bugs did attack first.

[Kellan]

Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Riiight. And you believe the government?!

They're fascists. I believe them implicitly.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by Kellan
They're fascists. I believe them implicitly.

I actually think there's some merit to the guy's idea. At least on his dream society, the power is with those that proved they are willing to do anything to protect the greater good - by putting their lives on the line, defending the "civilians".

And it's not like civilians are discriminated, they just don't have the right to vote.

[Stryke 9]

Really? I think it's kind of a repulsive idea, the government treating those who ere as the "good servants" who get preferential treatment.

[Dark_4ce]

Well, aren't all forms of government and society based on the greater good? I mean, look at communism. Everyone equal, everyone happy. The idea is good and nice, but in truth it wouldn't work. And to a degree fascism too, if you think about it.
Yeah, it proposes a higher degree of safety for the people, and more jobs, and the whole "we are better than everoyne else." But after a while, it gets EASILY corrupted...
Look what it got for Hitler and Mussolini... Mussolini and his girlfriend get their heads smashed in and their guts ripped out then hung for all to see, while Hitler is killed/dissapears. Utopian promises and governments never work.

[Pera]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
Er, they never had it be very equivocal that the Bugs threw the rock in the movie. They have all sorts of plasma signatures and things that say it WAS the bugs, in fact.

I always thought it wasn't the bugs.

I mean, just think about it. These bugs shoot an asteroid out of orbit, that then travels _at sub-light speed_ halfway across the galaxy, and happens to drop right in the middle of a city on earth? Not likely.

So it was a happy coincidence, they got a reason to attack the bugs, and someone to blame for the meteorite.

[Stryke 9]

[shrugs]

I only saw the movie once, and wasn't really paying attention. Ah well.