Author Topic: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)  (Read 44071 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
I'm always excited to see progress on Knossos; I think a combined installer and launcher could be very useful for new players, and I hope to see what the next version looks like when Mjn is done graphic-ing all over it. :P
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
Long time members will have some idea how happy I am to see all my dreams finally come true.

And it definitely looks better than my 2009 mock up.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 07:50:42 am by karajorma »
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline mjn.mixael

  • Cutscene Master
  • 212
  • Chopped liver
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
Most of what I've been working on is cleaning up the UI to help it feel polished and less photoshopy.

I tried moving the Uninstall button (easy), but it didn't actually function in the dropdown. I assume that's a limitation of the current non-js implementation of that dropdown.

Sometime soon I'm going to recreate the button.pngs because the outerglow effect is not working design wise, IMO. Also it makes the Details button looks blurred out. I noticed in a commit a while back you  "fixed color profiles" of those PNGs. What color space does libpng want?
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - Between the Ashes
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Freespace Upgrade Project See what's happening.

 

Offline ngld

  • Administrator
  • 29
  • Knossos dev
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
libpng only complains if you embed the sRGB profile. Not embedding it or using a different color space works. Here's an explanation.

I've looked into the problem you had with the shadows and the scroll bar but I haven't managed to fix it, yet. I've also started implementing the settings screen.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

  • Cutscene Master
  • 212
  • Chopped liver
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
Excellent. The shadows is very minor. We can worry about that later.
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - Between the Ashes
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Freespace Upgrade Project See what's happening.

 

Offline ngld

  • Administrator
  • 29
  • Knossos dev
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)


The settings page is nearly finished I just need to implement the save logic for the default flags. I added a save button because I didn't want to re-generate the fs2_open.ini on every change.
The Network setting is coded but hidden because I couldn't get the widgets to align correctly. Most of the Joystick section is disabled because it's not implemented, yet.
It's not finished but it's functionial which was my goal because I want to finish 0.5.0 as soon as possible. The only remaining tasks after this are: Fix a bug with path during mod installation, fix the formatting of the mod descriptions and properly handle the case where retail files are missing.



In other news: macOS is supported again because I found a box for Vagrant.
Someone brought up P2P mirroring again so I investigated BitTorrent again. libTorrent (which is also used by Deluge, qBittorrent and WoT launcher) has Python bindings which should make it easy to integrate. Using this I could generate .torrent files automatically on the server, Knossos would use libtorrent to download those. Each torrent would have the existing link on dl.fsnebula.org listed as a web seed which means that downloads will always work (even if noone seeds) and should be at least as fast as they are now.
If people then want to mirror files, they'd only need to run a torrent client and seed these torrents either on their own PC or on a server.
What are your thoughts on this approach?

 

Offline m!m

  • 211
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
I just checked the development files and the new settings page looks very good. Is it supposed to be functional yet? When I open the page all the settings panels are hidden by default and clicking the buttons doesn't do anything.

In other news: macOS is supported again because I found a box for Vagrant.
Someone brought up P2P mirroring again so I investigated BitTorrent again. libTorrent (which is also used by Deluge, qBittorrent and WoT launcher) has Python bindings which should make it easy to integrate. Using this I could generate .torrent files automatically on the server, Knossos would use libtorrent to download those. Each torrent would have the existing link on dl.fsnebula.org listed as a web seed which means that downloads will always work (even if noone seeds) and should be at least as fast as they are now.
If people then want to mirror files, they'd only need to run a torrent client and seed these torrents either on their own PC or on a server.
What are your thoughts on this approach?
It sounds like a good idea but torrent seeding will be disabled by default, right? Enabling it by default will cause issues for some users so it would be best to make it opt-in for the more advanced users.

 

Offline ngld

  • Administrator
  • 29
  • Knossos dev
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
I just checked the development files and the new settings page looks very good. Is it supposed to be functional yet? When I open the page all the settings panels are hidden by default and clicking the buttons doesn't do anything.
It's functional but you found a bug (hooray for automatic error reporting). It should be fixed now.

It sounds like a good idea but torrent seeding will be disabled by default, right? Enabling it by default will cause issues for some users so it would be best to make it opt-in for the more advanced users.
I'll add an option to disable seeding in the settings screen. I might add another option to disable torrent downloading, too. In that case Knossos would fall back to HTTP downloading.
I'm curious, what issues are you referring to? Would it be problematic beacuse of the (potentially) high upload traffic or because it's BitTorrent?

  

Offline m!m

  • 211
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
If an application starts uploading stuff without my approval then it's a reason to uninstall that software, at least for me personally. That's specific to the seeding part but I guess enabling torrent download by default would be ok if that doesn't also require seeding. Also, seeding might cause issues if people only have limited data per month and automatic seeding would effectively double the data usage of a download (depending on how fast the connection is).

 

Offline ngld

  • Administrator
  • 29
  • Knossos dev
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
Fair enough. I'll also have to think about how long a given client seeds if the option is enabled.

 

Offline chief1983

  • Still lacks a custom title
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️🅰➡️⬇️
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Fate of the Galaxy
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
When a game is running all seeding activity would need to pause as well, and resume after exiting the game.
Fate of the Galaxy - Now Hiring!  Apply within | Diaspora | SCP Home | Collada Importer for PCS2
Karajorma's 'How to report bugs' | Mantis
#freespace | #scp-swc | #diaspora | #SCP | #hard-light on EsperNet

"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline ngld

  • Administrator
  • 29
  • Knossos dev
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
I've fixed the mod installation, mod description and Knossos can finally launch FSO again! There are only two problems remaining: The prompt for missing retail files is still missing and I need to repackage most mods on fsnebula.org because of the recent changes. The latter is annoying because the current website can't handle the task since it doesn't know about the newer fields. I don't want to update the website because I plan on replacing most of it with the new developer page in Knossos itself. That's still unfinished, though.
As a temporary solution, I'll probably edit the JSON file on fsnebula.org by hand.

Given the current progress, I guess that I'll be able to release 0.5.0 either this weekend or the next. However, I won't add new mods (or update existing ones) until 0.6.0 is done (which will have the developer tab).

 

Offline mjn.mixael

  • Cutscene Master
  • 212
  • Chopped liver
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
:yes:

EDIT: Hmm, something with the recent commit broke windows_run.bat. "Add missing os.path.isdir() check".
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - Between the Ashes
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Freespace Upgrade Project See what's happening.

 

Offline ngld

  • Administrator
  • 29
  • Knossos dev
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
Delete the build.ninja file and try again. That file contains a list of all important files including the images. Since you renamed some of the images, the build.ninja file needs to be regenerated.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

  • Cutscene Master
  • 212
  • Chopped liver
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
Delete the build.ninja file and try again. That file contains a list of all important files including the images. Since you renamed some of the images, the build.ninja file needs to be regenerated.

Aha.
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - Between the Ashes
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Freespace Upgrade Project See what's happening.

 

Offline jg18

  • A very happy zod
  • 210
  • can do more than spellcheck
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
IMO direct download should be default and torrent should be opt-in, possibly without the option to disable seeding. Here's why:

According to Wikipedia, ISPs have been known to detect and throttle customers using torrenting. When I tried seeding Diaspora R1 when it was first released, my ISP nearly cut off my Internet connection seconds later, particularly bad since I shared the connection with my landlord :eek:  Thankfully the ISP restored the connection shortly after I stopped seeding. (Yay lack of net neutrality.) It's not inconceivable that an ISP would punish a customer for using BT just to download.  IMHO We shouldn't risk players having problems with their ISPs caused by their using our software using torrenting without their prior consent.

As for not allowing disabling seeding, I dunno if we should be encouraging leeching. The whole point of BT is to make download faster for everyone by having everyone upload the chunks they've already received. As such the player could choose to use torrent in thehopes of getting higher download speeds at the cost of a bit of uploading.

I can't find a reference for this now, but I thought in some cases torrent users who don't upload at all or "enough" get punished by having throttled download speedor conversely be rewarded with higher download speed for providing higher upload speed although now I can't find something to back that up.

As I remember you can configure a BT client to limit your maximum upload speed. We could offer a list of maximum upload speed options (e.g., low/medium/high with medium as default) so that downloaders have to upload at least a little bit. Although since I think a given chunk is downloaded from just one peer at a time, a slow upload speed for one player means a slow download speed for other players trying to get that chunk from that peer? In that case don't make the chunks super-big.

Since it isn't obvious to me, why should seeding be disabled while the game is running?

Alternatively, maybe we should just accept that torrent leeching is a fact a life and allow for disabling seeding? :doubt: But even in that case I still think torrenting should be opt-in for the reason I mentioned about the possibility of ISPs punishing customers for using BT. Or if we really wanted players to consider using torrent, we could make it a decision for the player to make on first Knossos startup and allow them to change it later if they want, like how wxL on first launch asks the userwhether wxL should download the news/highlights.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

  • Cutscene Master
  • 212
  • Chopped liver
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
I'm honestly curious if torrenting is even worth all of that. Specifically, what problem does it solve on our more modern, non-90s internet? Is it something that could more easily be solved with additional mirrors?

Now.. I fully realize I'm saying this as a Google Fiber customer. But it's still an honest question. Back when I was on Time Warner with a measly 25 down 5 up, I still didn't have issues downloading mods with relative ease.

Do we have enough people who might seed the torrents to make the torrents less of a slog than straight downloads?

If ya'll say, it really is worth it then, I'll believe you! It just sounded like a lot of overhead and I was curious.
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - Between the Ashes
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Freespace Upgrade Project See what's happening.

 

Offline ngld

  • Administrator
  • 29
  • Knossos dev
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
My main concern isn't speed (which should be fine as-is) but bandwith. Torrents were suggested several times and chief asked if there was a way to use several VPS with small hard drives as mirrors.
I found a way to implement them and it seemed like a simple solution to chief's suggestion (each VPS could run a torrent client and seed). Before implementing or testing anything I wanted some feedback which is why I suggested this in my last post.

Of course, additional mirrors could solve this just as well. It isn't even a real problem right now. I'm just wondering how much traffic Knossos will generate once people start actually using it.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
I think it'd help, it provides a simpler way to deal with peak bandwidth issues. The biggest stress on FSMods & the current installer that I recall is when Steam released FS2. The demand on the installer smashed FSMods & caused lots of failed downloads. If there was an option to torrent then HLPers could pretty much straight away contribute to reducing that demand while other mirrors are setup, or existing mirrors bandwidth is increased.

This is presuming that we don't have people willing to run mirrors all the time and eat the extra cost when the bandwidth isn't strictly needed.

And lastly, from a purely selfish point of view I like torrents because they're usually faster :) I've got a 100MB down ISP connection and I can't max it out except by using a torrent (or if the data is mirrored within Australia, which is OK for mainstream stuff like my OS updates, but not much else)
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline ngld

  • Administrator
  • 29
  • Knossos dev
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.4.4 (launcher / mod installer)
That was the main reason I've considered torrents.

And lastly, from a purely selfish point of view I like torrents because they're usually faster :) I've got a 100MB down ISP connection and I can't max it out except by using a torrent (or if the data is mirrored within Australia, which is OK for mainstream stuff like my OS updates, but not much else)
I'm curious, what download speed do you get with this link?