Author Topic: Gwent  (Read 3580 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Can we have a better version of this conversation?
    • Steam
    • Twitter
You are not the only one who lucked out in his draw:


"You think you won? - Pah, you fell right into my trap!" (EDIT: or as the soundbite that plays when she is revealed tells us: "I like the way you die, human.")

Now who has to go?

(And yes I am restructuring my Special Cards as well)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 05:01:23 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The Lantern King, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Good show, dear fellow!  :yes:  :pimp:

I think the murdervikings can really respect the stabbyelves now.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline MP-Ryan

  • Makes General Discussion Make Sense.
  • Global Moderator
  • 210
  • Keyboard > Pen > Sword
    • Twitter
I'm going to get murdered when I finally open this game, aren't I?
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Can we have a better version of this conversation?
    • Steam
    • Twitter
No, not really.

For one each faction starter sets you up with a nice deck and the singleplayer challenges teach you to counter the other archetypical decks. Both Enoich and I play variations/combinations/expanded versions of challenges.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The Lantern King, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Yeah, pretty much what 0rph3u5 said.

Also:
  • you're given a nice boost (card packs) for completing starting challenges
  • you are locked out of ranked games until you reach level 10 (by playing casual multi, which also gives you rewards)
  • the true power in a deck comes, essentially, from its bronze card synergy. The 'powerful' (silver and gold) cards can contribute (and on higher levels they become more important, which is why we're happy for unlocking them), but a well-built bronze deck can actually wreck face in the starter tiers and is relatively quick to put together, if you know what tactic you want to go after (like 0rph3u5 said, you get some idea of what you can do with each faction by playing the challenges).

All-in-all, this is a surprisingly beginner-friendly game, I think.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 08:25:05 pm by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Yeah. The game's matchmaking service ensures that you aren't put up against people who have been playing much longer than you. And if you play us we can always put together a deck that is more fair.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Can we have a better version of this conversation?
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Also, you gain tiered rewards for Rounds won each day (each game is a best-of-three) and you get rewards for sending a "Good Game" to your opponent after a match (they have a button for that) - and if you really want a card you can craft them from "Scraps" which either earn by gaining tiers, disassembling (aka "milling") other cards....

I have not worked out the pricing but generally Silver and Golds cost 200+, while Bronze Cards range from 30 to 200.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The Lantern King, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Base, non-premium (i.e. non-animated) cards are priced as follows, in my experience:

Bronze Common: 30 Scrap
Bronze Rare: 80 Scrap
Silver: 200 Scrap
Gold: 800 Scrap

Premiumness considerably affects base value and also requires 'Meteor dust' (which you can get as real money resource or rank reward) to be used.

A 'good game' compliment from your opponent gives you 5 scrap or ore. The tiered rewards 0rph3u5 mentioned also grant you 15 scrap or ore (usually every 2 or 4 round wins), with big 'landmark' rewards being along the lines of 100 Ore (e.g. first six round wins of the day)

You can buy a pack of five cards (one rare or silver or gold guaranteed) for 100 Ore. So, essentially, you can easily earn five cards a day.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
And even if you're losing you should be able to win a round in every game simply by just going in harder than the other player (play all your gold in the first round and most people will fold cause they know they can take you in the next two). Since the game rewards you for winning rounds rather than games it just means it will take you twice as many games to collect the daily reward and build up your deck even if you completely suck.

The game is actually surprisingly newbie friendly.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Geralt, move over. The Sparrowhawk is now leading the Guard.



I'm keeping the Royal Command, to double the chance I'll get her on the table in round 1. Timing is everything with this deck. If she's out in round 1 (and with the FIVE potential resurrection actions I have here, of which three can be triple Queensguards), her yield can be 18 power in total, over three turns. Not the highest of the Golds, by any stretch, but she does provide a considerable boost to the constant, relentless presence on the board that makes this deck so mother-freaking awesome.

Next gold to be crafted: Renew, to really **** with death and deal with smart-asses with big expensive golds. /kappa

Also, SIX resurrections.  :drevil:
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Oh my God, so many keks (sorry for the double post, but not too sorry because of all the keks).



'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Can we have a better version of this conversation?
    • Steam
    • Twitter
When you pull a Gold from a Keg, the choices are maddening...



- Like all Skellige Cards I could mill Madman Lugos for some sweet Scraps,
- the base Ciri-Card has some awesome utility as an opener,
- but then SchirrĂº is ... a king of combacks.

Damn you random selection! *shackes fist*


ps. just kidding I love my random stuff :D
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The Lantern King, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
So, what did you select, in the end?

If I wasn't maining Skellige, I would have gone with the Lady of the Worlds, myself.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Can we have a better version of this conversation?
    • Steam
    • Twitter
So, what did you select, in the end?

A man has to keep his secrets :P



Meanwhile with the White Hunt...

We both said "TONIGHT WE RIDE!" during the 2nd round, he won and I got my my Riders into the 3rd round...

His answer was to move one of my riders from to the Ranged Row .... but I would not have it...


Too bad you can't see the Wild Hunt Riders are animated ones, makes it 10% more awesome - yeah I spend some of the Merteroid Dust I won


... and so we rode to devastating victory :D


EDIT: Not even unspeakable, ancient evil from the Deep can stop the Hunt



(Note this is only the 2nd round, 1st round tied after I tried to increase the number of Foglet in my deck to which my opponent responeded with Drought)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 06:52:28 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The Lantern King, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Geralt, move over. The Sparrowhawk is now leading the Guard.

Make the most of her while you can. Queensguard are getting nerfed in the next update from what I've heard.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Geralt, move over. The Sparrowhawk is now leading the Guard.

Make the most of her while you can. Queensguard are getting nerfed in the next update from what I've heard.

Goddammit. Typical. I start WoWs maining IJN DDs; they get nerfed to the ground. I start Gwent with the QG, they get nerfed immediately.

What pisses me off is that I didn't even netdeck. Ah well. Do you have a quote on this - any idea on what the nerf is like?

EDIT: Found it. Bears now hit after Medics; QG are no longer veterans. Well ****, deck is dead, esp vs. NG.

-And hunters are no longer revivable, apparently.  :wtf: There goes the basic Skellige weather counter.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 12:02:48 pm by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Well on one hand, it sucks. On the other hand, you did know that they were massively OP. Not so much for advanced players but for the effort it costs to get them, they are way OP.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Sorry, kara, I disagree (although I'm more than open to discussion). The way I see it, what we have here is the exact same effect as the IJN DDs, in World of Warships, actually. I'll elaborate:

You can get a functional 4-QG deck with 3*80 (QG) + 1*200 (Operator) = 440 scrap. Add to that the 80 scrap you need to get three Freyas (you start with 2 in the starter deck) and you have a base entry requirement of 520 Scrap for the 'immortal guard' effect (provided your draws are good). You can complement that with other cards (Bears + Shieldmaidens for me, but I can imagine other additions as well). So, I'll grant you that it is possible for a starting player to something like this running pretty soon (I have no quarrel with that part of your argument - although I'd like to note that you can get similarly 'unfair' effects out of equally cheap decks for other factions as well).

So by level 10 or so (when you can start playing ranked), you can conceivably drop a QG deck in a game; and newbies see that massive 1-card drop at round 3, when you suddenly flood the deck with 18-20 power thanks to a single Freya and they cry OP; and it seems overwhelming. But to reach that point, you have to endure to get to round 3. That is not always possible.

My deck, at this point, has a 49/41 W/L ratio (54%). I am sorry, but that is not overpowered, by any stretch; not when there are budget netdecks around that advertise W/L ratios of 60%+ (looking at you, Monsters). And it may be confirmation bias, but I have never, so far, all the way up to rank 9 / Level 16 faced a single other QG deck. Not one. If it's so cheap and OP, why aren't more people playing it @ low levels?

My argument is that what people remember about QG decks is the one time the QG player managed to pull the combo off and smash their face in with the monster resurrection. Just like in WoWs they tend to remember the one time they sailed in a straight line and got torped by the invisible ninjaboat. What they don't remember is all the times draw RNG meant that the QG player had no Bear out when the Vicovaros stole half the QGs from their Graveyard. Or when the buffing units never came out. Or when the QG player hadn't drawn the Clear Skies they needed to deal with the 5+ Weathers the opponent has been throwing into their melee row. Or when there was no way to counter tempo play. Or when a Dwarf deck got 3 10+ Resilient units on the board.

What the changes mean is that a) Vicovaros will now be able to raid Skellige Graveyards with impunity, when before they were countered by Bears, not just denying the Skellige player the QGs (or any other high-value unit, really), but also repurposing them for themselves, with NO existing counter (wtf?); b) that , from a conservative estimate, the QGs lose a total of 3 power at round 2 and 6 power at round 3 (assuming no Operator and only Bran's buff, that's a 23% nerf) and c) that the Skellige no longer have a bronze weather counter unit (because Hunters are now regressive and non-veteran) unlike any other faction.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Can we have a better version of this conversation?
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Well, the problem as I see it is that Skelliges main buff mechanic is not -like everyone else- Boost but Strengthen. There are plenty of Boosts but Strenghen is more common than any other deck. This is otherwise fine for a deck that replays cards, otherwise what's the point.

(The difference is fine but important, Strengthen give the card a new base powerlevel, Boost just gives it more strength. When the card enters the Graveyard (i.e. is removed from the field) its powerlevel is reduced to the base value.)

This allows a QG deck to continiously up the powerlevel individual QG cards (e.g. with Smiths) and since you don't strenghen several cards at once but only one at time, you wind up with deck that can basically play cards with high strengh after a long turn 1, which due to unquel strengh are also impervious to Scorch, Epidemic and the similar.
Plus, Reseting a buffed QG card doesn't remove the accumulated buff at present, which is who usually get rid of super-buffed units like Marakham Defenders of the Dwarf-deck.

Re: Hunters:
The notion that "Skellige no longer have a bronze weather counter unit" is blowing it out of proprotion. What you lost is ability to play the same card per resurrection and that card gains power in later turns. The first part simply means that you have to add more of them or alternative means (remember, First Light doubles as playing a random Bronze Unit if there is no weather to remove - which in a Skellige deck is not that bad of deal as it is others). The second part maybe best viewed in context what other effects the card has.

Re: Vicovaros:
Welcome to everyone elses problems :D
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 04:39:26 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The Lantern King, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Fair points, all around.

May I ask a question? Beside myself, how many QG decks have you seen in casual play or ladder? I wonder if the Matchmaker has been taking the piss just with me, or whether they are truly rare in lower tiers. If they are, why do you think that is the case (if QG is so powerful)?

Regarding Queensguard, in particular: one interesting nerf that I saw suggested was this:

--------------
Veteran 1
When a Queensguard enters play, Resurrect this unit.
--------------

Do you see the difference? Locking this Unit would keep it in the Graveyard, unlike now (where a Queensguard immediately resurrects all her copies, locked or not). Comments?

You may be right on the Hunters; I need to have a better look at potential synergy with longships. I grant you that an 18+ strength Hunter in the lategame is ridiculous and that something needed to be done; I still find the nerf too drastic, for now, but I am more than willing to change my mind pending post-patch testing.  :nod:

And as for the medics: my argument is that, for every other faction, they steal a graveyard unit and play it on their side. Other factions do have options to resurrect, but that is not a main part of their gameplay as is the case with Skellige. When a Medic steals a Skellige card (QG or otherwise), they don't just spawn a (usually) powerful unit on their side; they also deny the Skellige player that Unit. Until now, Skellige players had one option to counter this: the Bears (and, in turn, NG players always had the option of nuking / locking the Bears to let their Medics have free reign). So, no: it's not "everybody elses' problems" here, because nobody else is as massively susceptible to graverobbing as Skellige, and their one counter to it is being removed.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)