Author Topic: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)  (Read 58537 times)

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
What does "nem.now" in the Shivan tech room entries mean?

 

Offline Rhymes

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
It's short for NEMESIS NOW, which, as I understand it, is the GTVA's attempt to model Shivan behavior while minimizing inbuilt assumptions, to avoid repeating the mistakes in pre-Capella analysis of Shivan behavior. I'm pretty sure NEMESIS NOW is how they were able to come up with things like introns and promoters for the different ship designs.
If you don't have Knossos, you need it.

“There was a button," Holden said. "I pushed it."
"Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn't it?”

 

Offline crizza

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
So, how would've the http://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/UEFg_Murugan fared against Tev assets?
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http://geo.schulzbert.de/

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
What does "nem.now" in the Shivan tech room entries mean?
Go to http://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/The_GRANITE_HUNTER_Files_(BP) and search for "NEMESIS NOW".
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 02:22:54 pm by AdmiralRalwood »
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline PIe

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[9:50 PM] Sottises: wait did you do vassago's verge?
[9:50 PM] Sottises: .. dirge?
[9:50 PM] Axem: yes
[9:50 PM] Sottises: ohh
[9:50 PM] Sottises: well I have that and JAD too
[9:50 PM] Axem: :)
[9:50 PM] Sottises: what a contrast of themes lmao
[9:50 PM] Axem: isnt it
[9:51 PM] Axem: super grimdark thriller about unknowable alien intelligence and over the top colorful action about friendship
[9:51 PM] PIe: jad is grimdark???
[9:51 PM] Axem: :skull:

[6:23 PM] PIe: why do I have the feeling that I shouldn't be able to give orders to 22nd armored hq
[6:24 PM] Axem: 22nd armored hq, i order you to get me a cup of coffee
[6:24 PM] PIe: and donuts
[6:24 PM] PIe: BECAUSE THIS IS THE GTVA POLICE
[6:25 PM] Axem: :O
[6:25 PM] Axem: am i under arrest
[6:26 PM] [`_`]/: no, just please step out of the myrmidon
[6:26 PM] [`_`]/: you have so much to fred for

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline The E

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
So, how would've the http://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/UEFg_Murugan fared against Tev assets?

The Murugan is, essentially, a really huge Karuna. It doesn't have some of the Karuna's drawbacks, given that most its heavy guns are mounted in turrets and thus have much larger firing arcs than the Karuna's fixed mounts, but on a fundamental level it's still a Federation design and as such is not able to compete with GTVA ships in terms of pure shock damage potential. It's certainly capable of ending fights faster, but it's still built around the concept of capital ship fights being boxing matches while the GTVA builds its ships around the idea of ending a battle in the first salvo.

It also has one massive drawback: As a more or less pure big gun Battleship, it lacks integral fighter cover and thus is only really deployable in Sol's "coastal" environment; if it goes on an expedition, it will need a lot of escorts.
This, of course, means that if one were to deploy it, it would be used in much the same way the USN used its big-gun battleships during WW2: As dedicated escorts and support ships for carrier strike forces. Having a Murugan ride shotgun on a Solaris, where the Murugan could serve as a close-in escort for the Solaris while the Solaris' fighters and smaller frigates do the "real" work is certainly a powerful deterrent against an enemy trying to kill the carrier .... but, of course, this is all still within the limits of the Federation tech base. No escort ship, no matter how badass and bristling with guns, can effectively protect a carrier against a well-executed shock jump.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline Homura

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Has anyone also problems with the wiki? The table format is bugged and every image files are missing.

 
Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Quote
No escort ship, no matter how badass and bristling with guns, can effectively protect a carrier against a well-executed shock jump.

Can't it, though? Sure, if Steele (or whoever) commits a shock jump against a Solaris, I doubt there's much the destroyer's escorts could do about it - but they could smash up the attack force pretty well. Here's a hypothetical: A Murugan against a Titan that's already fired its opening salvo at something else; what happens?

 
Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
The shock jump is a powerful tactic, but it isn't unbeatable. The goal is to prevent them in the first place. Hit and run. ECM and ECCM. Keep the enemy off balance, unaware of your next target, and away from their own supplies. Shock jumps require careful coordination, and if you can scramble it, then it is possible to force a slugging match or slip past a counter attack.

A Solaris, and to a lesser extent the other Fed ship classes, have a significant problem compared to Tev warships because of the lag time for their missiles to move downrange. They have a frightening DPS, but it takes 45 seconds for them to start dealing it at range. Since a Murugan's primary armament isn't its missiles, it could start damaging its opponents immediately.

 

Offline Hellstryker

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
The tevs wouldn't shock jump a Solaris without accurate intel showing they've got an opening. I sincerely doubt they'd field Serkr or a Titan against a destroyer with Murugan escort.

 

Offline The E

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Quote
No escort ship, no matter how badass and bristling with guns, can effectively protect a carrier against a well-executed shock jump.

Can't it, though? Sure, if Steele (or whoever) commits a shock jump against a Solaris, I doubt there's much the destroyer's escorts could do about it - but they could smash up the attack force pretty well. Here's a hypothetical: A Murugan against a Titan that's already fired its opening salvo at something else; what happens?

The Murugan's crew scramble to bring their guns to bear on the Titan in a desperate attempt to kill the beam emitters before they recharge.
Alternatively, they jump away immediately, if there is no way to bring enough guns to bear to guarantee the destruction of those emitters.

The tevs wouldn't shock jump a Solaris without accurate intel showing they've got an opening. I sincerely doubt they'd field Serkr or a Titan against a destroyer with Murugan escort.

They would, though, if the outcome is sufficiently likely to fall in the GTVA's favour. Taking a Solaris off the board is a price worth losing a few corvettes or risking damage to a Destroyer over.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline emark4

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Esmar al-Fadil is a more likely candidate, if FS2A1 didn't die in the supernova.

Oh wow, I think I may have doomed fs2 alpha 1.. whoops....

 

Offline Hellstryker

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
This one actually hit me the other day as I was re-reading the Granite Hunter files and the Shivan ship descriptions - did any other races come so far in their study of the Shivans? Introns, promoters, pilot integration, nightmare turbines.. how much of this stuff had the Ancients or anyone else figured out, if they did at all?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 06:26:48 pm by Hellstryker »

 

Offline Torchwood

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Does it matter? If the GTVA's understanding about the Shivans is correct, they are infinitely mutable, endlessly adaptable. Meaning no matter how much one learns about them, it will always be summed up as "not enough".
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 02:48:56 pm by Torchwood »

 
Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Esmar al-Fadil is a more likely candidate, if FS2A1 didn't die in the supernova.

Oh wow, I think I may have doomed fs2 alpha 1.. whoops....

Al-Fadil...

Al-Fa...

Alpha...

And there's only one of him. Checkmate, atheists.



Quote
Does it matter?
Ken's implied that humanity matters somehow, and I wouldn't be surprised if our understanding of the Shivans relates to the reason why.

 

Offline ShivanSpS

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Esmar al-Fadil is a more likely candidate, if FS2A1 didn't die in the supernova.

Oh crap... that would explain the two possible endings to that mission.

buuut wouldt FS2A1 have a capital ship at this point? It has been 18 years since FS2, and FS2A1 is a hero. The Samuel Bei, the ensign who did not know to target bombs first in the 2nd shivan war already qualified as a ship captain in the middle of AoA. FS2A1 was already the captain of a elite squadron before the war ended.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 07:29:15 pm by ShivanSpS »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Pilot captains aren't interchangeable with ship captains.

 

Offline ShivanSpS

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Then the dialogue on AoA is wrong, it says once you get to the rank of captain you can choose to be a squadron leader or ship captain.

Here you go, 2:55:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arg4vZffYwU


Also in real life navy pilots can become ship captains after they were squadron leaders as far as i know.

 

Offline Snarks

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Then the dialogue on AoA is wrong, it says once you get to the rank of captain you can choose to be a squadron leader or ship captain.

Also in real life navy pilots can become ship captains after they were squadron leaders as far as i know.

Maybe the implication there is that he chose to remain as a squadron leader. And squadron leaders certainly aren't interchangeable with ship captains. I think there's a false assumption that every pilot eventually wants to be an admiral going on here.